This is definitely Christmas cheeky fuckery isn’t it?

[KylieJennersMakeUpSponge]

Foreword: yes I’m disorganised as hell and have left presents until the last minute yet again. But it is what it is.

SIL has 3 children - 2 who are now adults in their 20’s and a 9yo.

I have 2 children ages 7&10.

When i came into the family I bought for her kids jointly with DH - I knew them from when they were about 5 & 7. We stopped buying once they both went off to Uni, we felt that adulthood was a good age to stop. We always used to go for about £20 per niece.

Anyway, SIL messaged today to ask for ideas for my kids’ presents. I sent some suggestions all around the £15-£20 mark. I asked about DN aged 9. She sent some computer games all priced at £40.

So it’s been a tough year financially for various reasons, mainly due to DH’s ill health. We’ve told our kids that big extravagant presents like what we’ve given them in years before are a no-no (which they’re fine with) and DH and I aren’t buying for one another as we try and put money into savings so we can pay bills through 2024. we are budgeting to within an inch of our lives and tracking literally every penny as we do not want to get into debt. We are already in debit with our gas company.

Anyway I budgeted £10-£20 for nephews and nieces for Christmas, which was very do-able, we don’t have many. However I begrudge paying £40 and I really did have to say to SIL that it’s out of our budget and can she make some cheaper suggestions, or alternatively I can buy a second hand game from CeX.

She had replied to say that she is surprised as she is spending £40 on our children so it’s fair to spend £40 back. And that Cex only ever gives scratched games (not true, my kids have a Cex-bought PS4 and I buy all their games there, never had a problem and even if I did they do warranties on everything!).

AIBU to think that’s not how it works?!

What really pisses me off more than anything though - and I know this isn’t 9yo DN’s fault - but he is the world’s most spoilt child. He has three computer consoles - a switch, PS5 and an Xbox. He has the fancy VR headsets and all the gadgets and the latest games. They always claim they’re skint but he doesn’t go without - and in my view if he wants a certain game so badly it’s not like his only opportunity to get it is by us buying it for him! At the moment £20 is a lot to us, if I do have a spare £20 kicking about I put it towards the gas bill.

Do AIBU to think SIL is a cheeky fucker? She knows that DH has been off work most of the year and that we have less than we normally do. Or is it the case of it’s fair to spend the same amount in total no matter how many kids the other person has?

it’s the juxtaposition of

not a single paid day out for the entire year
not able to afford santa visit as none for under a tenner

vs

£10-20 per niece and nephew is “very doable”

And no I couldn’t afford a paid activity for them. I had one wage coming in, a sick DH and we JUST had coming in what was going out. What else would you have done in that situation? If for example your income was £1600 and your outg

you have completely misunderstood.

Of course i’m not confused about you tightening your belt and not being able to afford any paid days out or santas grotto because of the perilous situation you are in

what i am confused about is that perilous situation BUT “£10-£20 per niece and nephew is very doable”

Sorry to hear you are easily confused.

Because I’m not going to not buy my niece and nephews presents. If that means my DC have to go without a non-essential trip, then so be it. If it meant I couldn’t buy food to put on the table I’d think twice - but a Santa visit is a treat not a necessity.

And do you know what - they didn’t even notice. They’ve never asked where their visit to Santa is.

It’s really not that confusing.

A Santa visit is just another form of a paid day out. We budgeted for Christmas presents which take precedent over days out, even for nieces and nephews. Simple!

It will not kill my kids to tolerate, for just ONE year, having to do without the very generous amounts they normally get, and understand why. It also doesn’t kill them to know other children in the family should have presents from us before they have days out. I really think we have as a society spoilt and overindulged our kids to the point we think £50 Santa trips, polar express visits, Christmas eve boxes with £30 of goods in them etc are essential - and I don’t think our kids will be any better off having been raised with this attitude either.

. If that means my DC have to go without a non-essential trip, then so be it

for the entire year

ok

Correct. Your point?

I’ll ask again because you didn’t seem to want to answer the first time - what am I supposed to do with £5 disposable income a month other than get into debt? Would genuinely love some answers.

Anyway you say this:

Of course i’m not confused about you tightening your belt and not being able to afford any paid days out or santas grotto because of the perilous situation you are in

And then follow it up with a sneery comment about me not being able to afford days out during the year.

So are you confused or are you not confused?

my confusion is prioritising £10-£20 presents for nieces and nephews over one single paid day out or santa visit over the entire year for your own children

but hey - whatever floats your boat. My confusion means bugger all 🤷‍♀️

what am I supposed to do with £5 disposable income a month other than get into debt?

Not save it towards £10-20 christmas presents for your nieces and nephews?

over and out

When DN is chuffed with his gift hand the cex receipt to sil incase he wants to exchange it. Let her see that actually you haven't been dictated to.

Yes - I’ve explained why. Did you not read the posts?

Why not?

@KylieJennersMakeUpSponge In answer to your question asking what I personally would do, I can tell you that I certainly would not let my DC suffer and have no social interaction besides school, purely so that I could "put a little away"
I'm a single parent on disability with no maintenance and yet somehow, miraculously, my DC is getting the very much wished for Nintendo Switch as I have saved small amounts all year for it. Obviously I don't know what your income details are as that's not my business but given that you asked me directly, that's my answer.
If there's a choice between £10 on a trip to soft play or £10 on something nicer for dinner for example, then I most certainly choose the soft play. That's not me saying that I'm some kind of saint or better parent, or that my choice is in any way superior. Just that that's the choice I choose to make.
Either way, children need social interaction with other kids outside of school and sadly, in the winter months especially, that's usually only achievable somewhere that costs £5/£10 and I'd rather eat 20p instant noodles every meal than never ever allowing my kids to have a trip to soft play etc. That's mean. Especially to follow it by saying that it's meant you could "put a little away"

I think what PPs are trying to say to you OP is that you are, from what you've said on this thread at least, seemingly putting your niece/s & nephew/s above your own DCs in terms of priorities.
Again, basing this purely on what you yourself have said, you've also taken/stolen your own DS's video games to trade in, to buy a present which sounds like it could be even more expensive than what you've spent on each present for your own DCs?* Just because your SIL says so. Why can’t you see anything wrong with that?
Before you get angry again, please remember that you yourself have told us all of this and asked our opinion. I'm trying not to make assumptions. If I’m right though and £40 is more than the value of each present for your DC then that’s quite shocking to be fair. I can’t find a kinder word to use than shocking. I realise it comes from you not wanting confrontation with your SIL but come on, OP. Your DCs should not have to suffer for it and they should be your priority in terms of present value. Not that value really matters in real terms but I’d certainly not give a more expensive gift to somebody else’s child for Christmas than I’ve given my own DC. No way.

*You said you’d only bought stocking fillers for your own DC which are usually less than £40?

In answer to your question asking what I personally would do, I can tell you that I certainly would not let my DC suffer and have no social interaction besides school, purely so that I could "put a little away"

What on earth makes you think my children have had ‘no social interactions’? That’s a really weird assumption. Do you know it’s free to leave the house, visit people, go for walks, attend local events? If someone has told you you have to pay every time you leave the house you are wrong and you need to report them to the police.

So if you were me you’d get into debt then? Yeah I’m not doing that to my family - the long term effects are far more damaging than not going to the cinema, FYI.

I'm a single parent on disability with no maintenance and yet somehow, miraculously, my DC is getting the very much wished for Nintendo Switch as I have saved small amounts all year for it.

Well whoppee shits for you. Yes you have no idea what my income and outgoings are but I imagine you’re clever enough to know not everyone’s is the same?

If there's a choice between £10 on a trip to soft play or £10 on something nicer for dinner for example, then I most certainly choose the soft play.

I don’t remember saying I overindulged on food items? You’ve either misunderstood or you’re making things up on my behalf. I can guess which one it is

That's not me saying that I'm some kind of saint or better parent, or that my choice is in any way superior.

Completely agree - superior people have empathy and understanding and don’t go out their way to make someone feel like shit
.
Either way, children need social interaction with other kids outside of school

I totally agree. It’s a good job they get plenty then isn’t it!

I'd rather eat 20p instant noodles every meal than never ever allowing my kids to have a trip to soft play etc. That's mean.

Again what on Earth makes you think I’ve been eating lobster bisque every night? I DO eat super noodles sometimes - it’s how I’ve been able to save, by cutting down massively on my personal food budget. But I absolutely still feed the kids something more nutritious and DH’s health requirements have meant he is on a very specific diet and it isn’t super noodles.

Did you feel better by trying to give a random poster a kick when they’re down?

Actually PPs have been lovely which is why I love MN and I’ve had some great advice.

How have I put my nieces and nerohews above my kids? If I got my kids nothing and got DNs a present now THAT would be prioritising them. But my DC still have plenty to open, and my DNs have 1 present each. I think my kids would benefit far greater from realising that their cousins still matter at Christmas than they would having an extra tenner thrown at them.

I feel REALLY sorry for people who think that love for their kids is shown through presents. Transactional love is not real love and it teaches bad habits and bad boundaries IMO.

Stolen my kids’s video games 🤣 that’s what we have always done in the family - traded in unused ones. I did it so I only had to spend £2 cash rather than £20 and the other £18 went on the Octopus account. Why would I just leave video games sitting there unplayed?

”Not trying to make assumptions” - 🤣 no you’ve just made a load of nonsense up because you got called out on your cruel post.

Can people stop attacking the OP please? She has made sure her kids have fun this year, no PAID activities will not harm them, especially for one year.
She has had a tough time and is doing the best she can with what she's got. Jeez. How about a bit of Christmas spirit etc?

Ok first of all, calm down. You’ve misunderstood a lot of my examples, including the ones where I said “for example….” Nevermind.
I also said that in the winter months ie WHEN IT’S BAD WEATHER often (meaning NOT ALWAYS) social interaction can mean things like soft play ETC <- notice the etc.
You cannot report people to the police for saying the above. It’s just not a crime, it really isn’t.
I never once said that your children didn’t get any social interaction, I was just highlighting the importance of it. I also never said anything about Lobster bisque! You asked me what I would do in your situation so I answered you and gave an example. I did not say that you were giving up your kid’s days out in return for fancy food. That was an example.
Many posters have tried to point out GIVEN THAT YOU CAME ON HERE AND ASKED FOR OPINIONS(!) that whilst we all understand tightening of belts etc, that we think perhaps you’ve taken it a little too far.
Especially when you added “It’s enabled me to put a little away” which sounds like you’ve made your kids do without so that you can have some savings. That’s all. Nobody kicked you.
I’m not engaging anymore as you clearly don’t want any advice.

Do you know what - they HAVE had fun doing the free activities, seeing friends, Sunday walks, rainy days playing board games and whilst I’m sure they have missed soft plays and theme parks, they have survived and never complained and are no less happy than this time last year. Soft plays basically didn’t exist where I grew up as a child and the cinema was a birthday treat, as were theme parks. I don’t remember this need to fill every weekend with a paid activity, and I never had any less fun because of it.

Nobody is attacking OP. She asked for advice and opinions and didn’t like the ones she got. Especially after she said herself, that she has not taken her kids to any paid activities (fine in summer but in winter?) and added “It’s enabled me to put a little away” As you can imagine, that has infuriated parents on here who don’t put their own savings before their kids. Of course most people have had to restrict paid activities this year myself included, but absolutely nothing for a year JUST to get some savings for themselves? Yet is very happy to trade in her own son’s games (with or without his permission) in order to treat her nephew to a £40 Christmas gift, despite only having bought stocking fillers for her own DC?

No. You don’t get to put a shitty comment about my children (with nothing else to accompany it other than your apparent distress) then tell me to calm down.

.I also said that in the winter months ie WHEN IT’S BAD WEATHER often (meaning NOT ALWAYS) social interaction can mean things like soft play ETC <- notice the etc.
You cannot report people to the police for saying the above. It’s just not a crime, it really isn’t.

Firstly, no you didn’t - you expressed sympathy for them not getting out ‘all year’

Also do your only not interact socially in soft plays on winter? Really? Mine don’t - we have play dates.

The reporting to the police was my PA comment about you assuming it costs money to leave the house. It doesn’t.

I never once said that your children didn’t get any social interaction, I was just highlighting the importance of it.

Really? So then why did you say:

”I certainly would not let my DC suffer and have no social interaction besides school”

You know we can read your posts back, right?

Why did you assume school was their only social interaction? You haven’t answered except to deny you said that. It you DID say it - why? Was it just to stick the boot in again? Do you never take your kids for walks or free activities?

I also never said anything about Lobster bisque! You asked me what I would do in your situation so I answered you and gave an example.

You answered based on the random assumption that I was over spending on food. Where did you get that from? It wasn’t ‘an example’ - do you think o needed to be told by some random MNer that some food costs cheaper?

.Many posters have tried to point out GIVEN THAT YOU CAME ON HERE AND ASKED FOR OPINIONS(!)

I didn’t ask for opinions on if you were sad for my kids or for financial advice. I have that in hand.

that whilst we all understand tightening of belts etc, that we think perhaps you’ve taken it a little too far.

I’ve taken it too far because I refuse to get into debt for Christmas?

Especially when you added “It’s enabled me to put a little away” which sounds like you’ve made your kids do without so that you can have some savings

Well yes - I saved for Christmas. I figure Christmas presents are better than the odd day to the cinema.

I’m not engaging anymore as you clearly don’t want any advice.

No I don’t want financial advice from someone who would seemingly get into debt, or someone who has no reading comprehension and makes things up, and someone who has never heard of play dates, walks and free activities.

I haven’t been called out on anything! How have you put your DN above your DC?
You said that you were going to trade in your DS’s games so that you could buy your DN the £40 game. You also said that you have bought just stocking fillers for your own DC (nothing wrong with just stocking fillers by the way, I agree that love is shown in many more ways than purchases. 100%). The issue is how it makes your DC feel that A: He has to give up his own games in order to buy his cousin a gift and B: Said gift is more than any gift he got. Just seems mean, that’s all

But you DID attack. Your post was only posted to express sympathy for my kids and you wrongly assumed they never get out the house - why did you do that? You didn’t do it to be helpful did you. Did it make you feel better about being ‘lonely and sad’? I can’t think WHY anyone would just post a shitty and unhelpful post like that unless it somehow makes them feel better

Yes I put saving for Christmas before cinema trips and theme park trips. And I’m so pleased I did.

Also what do you mean by ‘savings for themselves’? Do you think I’m off getting my hair and nails done at the expense of my kids? Savings are for the kids

Also I think some posters definitions of stocking fillers are different to mine. When I saying stocking fillers I mean smaller gifts and no main present. I’ve got my kids clothes, Cex computer games, board games, card games, chocolates, books, bath bombs etc. we don’t actually do stockings in my house!

Yeah, you're attacking her. And attempting to gaslight by saying "no dear, that's obviously not what I meant, you've taken it all wrong" etc.

Parents on here are not "infuriated". And it's obvious she's not prioritising her own savings, she's making a few family savings for financial security going into the future.

Do you know what, I can barely remember being taken to any paid activities as a child, yet I turned out OK. I wonder how many you went to?

OP - is this SIL your husband's sister? If so, does she have no empathy with the ill health he's been facing? It's very odd.

But you've done the right thing. And budgeting for Christmas and sticking to that budget is admirable.