Anti-gay marriage

[NotGotAClue1]

My finance and the father of my young child told me that he doesn’t agree with gay marriage, not being gay in general, just the marriage part. And that it would be better for a child to be raised by a man and a woman. I’m completely offended by this and don’t agree in the slightest. I think he is thinking like a dinosaur and needs to move with the times. He thinks we can have different views and move on. But this has actually changed the way I look at him. He isn’t religious at all which is making me even more confused at his strong views.

AIBU?

He thinks the church (of England presumably) should be in charge of the law rather than Parliament?

I would be much more concerned that you do not know the man with whom you have child very well. Definitely get to know him a lot better before you marry him.

From a developmental standpoint, a child does need a male and female influence and role models. However, role models are not limited to parents so his argument is void and frankly disgusting. So he'd let a man and woman in a potentially violent/toxic relationship get married and raise a child but not a loving, caring, dedicated gay couple?
Weird behaviour.

"Says the man who had a child out of wedlock...?" Said with an expression of faint bemusement?

Story time:
I'm a primary school teacher, and used to teach in a small, rather "churchy" village school. I was teaching Year One at the time, and we'd been learning about weddings in RE. I said something fairly throwaway (I thought!), like "Nowadays you can marry whoever you want! Isn't that nice?" and thought no more of it.

The next day, a dad comes storming in demanding to know why I'm pushing the gay agenda on his son, in a church school?!
I gave my best withering stare and replied, "I gave him a bit of factually accurate knowledge, and I'm pretty sure the bible tells us to love our neighbour." Then I turned and walked away.
To this date, I still count this as one of my finest moments in teaching.

@NotGotAClue1 your comment about the two of you having many opposing beliefs rings alarm bells for me. Why would you marry someone who doesn't share your values? You don't have to be identical, but there does have to be some overlap. My late husband was much more right wing than I am, but we absolutely had key things in common (until he dove into the bottle but that's a whole other story).

I tend to agree with your husband because I think its not fair on children to deny them knowledge of their mother and father, and that yes it is in the childs best interests to be raised by a male and female (not that this is always possible).

I also don't support adoption or surrogacy because I think people are only entitled to have children if they can create them themselves (there are obviously exceptions like a grandparent taking over if the parents pass away etc). Gay people can not reproduce without a third party, it goes against nature and deprives the child of their biological parents.

Why do you actually disagree with him? Calling him a dinosaur is not a well reasoned argument.

Brilliant @zingally

@ShelleyPercy you don't support adoption? So a child who loses both parents for whatever reason should not be adopted by anyone? What a bizarre stance to take.

As I tire of repeating, just because I am against gay marriage, doesn't mean that I wish to withhold the right to marry from anyone else.
Im unsure how many times I need to keep saying this in order for it to filter through skulls.

You may not like or understand why some gay people reject the concept of "marriage", and you can label it as not knowing what we're talking about, being internally homophobic, and whatever else you can think to fling in the direction but the reality is that more than a handful gay people think that marriage is utterly regressive and prefer the civil partnership route as it doesnt buy in to anything religious, conservative, or heteronormative which is how marriage is viewed by some.

AGAIN, this doesnt mean that they want to remove marriage from the table of others, so stop making up fanciful false comparisons.

What about marriage that doesn’t involve the church? Or does he think the church has some odd power over all marriage in the UK?

Its a surprisingly common view among fundamentalists, particularly those who are pro-life, as the anti-adoption views give them a convenient reason not to care about children who come about via forced birth. Its also an extremely common view among abusers, a ban an adoption means they can continue to abuse their children.

As I tire of repeating, just because I am against gay marriage, doesn't mean that I wish to withhold the right to marry from anyone else.
Im unsure how many times I need to keep saying this in order for it to filter through skulls.

It's because your terminology is incorrect and odd, as has been pointed out by several posters.
You aren't against gay marriage. It just isn't for you.

If you persist in saying that you are against something they will continue to think that you want it to be banned. Being against something in common parlance means that you think it shouldn't ever happen for anyone, ever.

So children should be denied potential adoptive parents because they can't biologically have children with each other? That's horrible! Do you think infertile couples should be banned from adopting too?

Bizarre that you appear to think that equal rights are a passing fad.

Why is it in the child’s best interest to be raised by a “male and female”? (Incidentally, male and female what? Bonobo?) I assume you actually mean men and woman? What research supports this?

As long as the child is loved, cherished and provided for, I fail to see how the gender of the parents or guardians matter at all.

Sigh.
I'm for marmite and against coriander.
Doesnt mean I want coriander banned.

being annoying and double posting because I’ve just registered that your against adoption! 😂😂 you truly get all sorts on here.

It is worth putting some energy into getting him to unpack all of his feelings on the matter. His reasoning about the government and the church is back to front: it is the government who makes the law around marriage in this country, not the church. If the church had wanted to marry same-sex couples before the law allowed for it they would not have been able to if you see what I mean.

Maybe he does not know much about the history of marriage.

People can change. My ex was astoundingly homophobic when we met; over time he changed how he understood sexual orientation.

Having bigger political differences, though, might be a deal breaker especially if he is someone who steamrollers his views and does not have any flexibility or scope to grow.

@NotGotAClue1 Your husband is confused because marriage is an important pillar of most mainstream religions with their own practices and ceremonies surrounding it. The fact is, marriage is a legal joining of two people at it's core. All the other ceremonial stuff is fluff and people could always opt in or out of it. Even before same-sex marriage, plenty of people opted to marry outside of faith based ceremonies at a registry offices.

Same sex marriage legislation only made the legal act of marriage available to everyone. It didn't force religions to recognise it or perform ceremonies. The church DOES still exercise it's own choice. The COE is moving towards it and, I believe, the Catholics are still dead against.

Your husband needs to understand his own arguments better.

Also, you might remind him that governments make, alter and revoke laws. It's literally their job - or a big part of it.

I mean, you could be flogging a dead horse here if he has lots of political opinions you don't agree with. He seems like a person who just has a set world view and isn't interested in changing it. Especially if he can't even consistently articular why he thinks the way he does or alter it when he gets new information.

You're against adoption?! What on earth do you suggest we as a society do with all the children who are removed from abusive and neglectful birth parents? Keep them in a cupboard?

I have never heard anyone use 'for' and 'against' in this way. It would be much clearer, and make a lot more sense, to say, "I like marmite. I don't like coriander." Or, indeed, "I don't want to get married."

Op have you pointed out to him that weddings don't have to be in church? How does he feel about gay people getting married in a registry office?
Or straight people using a sperm donor to conceive a baby?

I'd have to give him examples like what if a gay couple wants to adopt a child who has been waiting years for a family in foster care?

You need to ask all these questions to see if he's deeply homophobic or if it's about his feelings on IVF and the government etc.. and then decide what you can live with from there.

Against adoption??!!

So children who’s parents die should do what, live in care, rather than being adopted into a loving family?

Does that even extend to being brought up by family members. My Gran was brought up her grandparents following the death of her parents. They didn’t adopt her formally but they might as well have done. Should that not have happened?

You’re entitled to a view, but let’s not pretend it’s anything other than completely inhumane.

Not only do I simply "not want to get married", I think that the gay community does itself a disservice when it attempts to conform to heteronormative and traditional ideals of what relationships should look like in order to be considered valid by wider society.

It is my opinion that gay people can protect themselves financially and give themselves the same level of rights and security by using civil partnership which is a perfectly viable option that isn't rooted in ownership, conservatism, tradition, religious belief and is, in my opinion, an outdated institution no longer compatible with modern relationships, including homosexuality.

My issue with marriage is not the sex or sexual orientation of those within the union, it is with the institution of marriage itself.
I understand that there is a lot of pressure within the heterosexual community to marry because it is often linked with finances, this can be evidenced by the number of mumsnet threads about "he doesn't want to marry me, my high earning DP is avoiding talk about marriage, he doesn't want to commit even though ive washed his pants for a decade, my DH doesn't lift a finger and i'm unhappy but I cant leave because we're married, DH has been abusive and I want to leave but hes emptied our joint account behind my back and i'm scared about divorce" etc etc, and upon reading this I have no idea why gay people wish to engage with or link themselves to such an antiquated system that appears to be particularly designed to oppress women into domesticity in order to formalise their relationships.

If they just want to do it because it's their right and thats how they want to formalise their relationship, thats fine.

I have absolutely no inclination to remove the right to from ANYBODY, gay or straight, and im more than capable of understanding that it may be what other people absolutely want to do for their own reasons within their own relationships, but my thoughts on the matter run much deeper than "not wanting to do it", to the point that I am actually pretty against it.

Hope that clarifies.

@Verv that makes perfect sense and is completely consistent. Where I'm from, everyone has the same options: formal cohabitation contract or marriage. A civil marriage ceremony is compulsory and is what makes it valid. The religious part in itself has no legal standing. Everyone has the choice, everyone is legally protected.