Anti-gay marriage

[NotGotAClue1]

My finance and the father of my young child told me that he doesn’t agree with gay marriage, not being gay in general, just the marriage part. And that it would be better for a child to be raised by a man and a woman. I’m completely offended by this and don’t agree in the slightest. I think he is thinking like a dinosaur and needs to move with the times. He thinks we can have different views and move on. But this has actually changed the way I look at him. He isn’t religious at all which is making me even more confused at his strong views.

AIBU?

It's homophobic to describe gay marriage and child rearing rights as 'fashion' or 'politically correct'.

Trying to legitimise those views by suggesting they are just 'traditional' is puerile.

It was quite traditional to force unmarried women into Magdalene laundries.

Oh here we fucking go.

I'm one. I am one of the gay people who doesn't simp for gay marriage.

While I believe that gay people should absolutely have the same rights as the rest of society, I don't believe that we need to ape heterosexual marriage "under the eyes of the lord" or whatever when the church and the majority of its supporters have been pushed and legislated into accepting us on the surface while still thinking that we're sinning shitbags behind our backs.

Id rather avoid the hypocrisy and stick with civil partnership.

I love the excuse of a child should be raised by a man and a woman... Yes in an ideal world but look at the facts. Most children are raised by single mothers and some men have nothing to do with their children (women too I know). Both men and women are capable of being bad parents. It's better that a child is raised by someone who loves them and keeps them safe regardless of gender. I would have been better off if my mum was a lesbian and I had a stepmum who loved me than my incompetent father!.

@Verv marriage is a legal contract. It has nothing to do with religion these days.

1. You are one gay person. Not plenty of gay people.

2. Do you "not believe in gay marriage"? Or do you "believe that gay people should absolutely have the same rights as the rest of society"? The two are mutually exclusive; they can't both be true.

3. It's perfectly acceptable to not want to get married yourself without denying those who do want to the right to do so.

4. Marriage existed long before Christianity. My wedding took place in a registry office with not a mention of any kind of higher being. Religious people don't own marriage any more than straight people do.

Well, no, your opinion is that his opinion is wrong.

While I'm of the personal opinion that a child being raised by two loving mums or dads is perfectly normal, I'm not naive enough to think that some people unsurprisingly hold a more traditional view of relationships/ parenting and ARE allowed to hold that view.

There are gay priests who don't believe in gay marraige (gay vicar was mentioned on this thread).

Remember Elton John saying he preferred civil partnerships to marriage before changing his mind.

Personally I think anyone (over the legal age) should be able to get married, but I don't think those who oppose gay marraige (on backward religious grounds) are necessarily homophobic.

Quite. Also is he, in fact, opposed to gay people raising kids - or does he think in an ‘ideal’ world a child would have a mother and a father? Because there is a difference.

Perhaps he feels a woman can give the benefit of knowing about women’s bodies to a girl child in a way two male fathers wouldn’t. Fair enough, that’s true. Just the same way a woman isn’t going to know what it’s like to have a male body.

Doesn’t mean it’s ideal for every child in reality though does it…relationship break ups, drug abuse, death - all things that get in the way of an ‘ideal’ set up. And most would agree that love it’s the absolute ideal, wherever that comes from.

I mean one might think that ideally children grow up with separate bedrooms - but plenty share rooms and are incredibly happy so there is wiggle room on opinions.

He also might see marriage as a purely religious thing and therefore not even be thinking about legal benefits etc.

So you need to get to the bottom of what he actually feels not just decide he’s a bigot because he doesn’t believe the EXACT same as you.

before anyone leaps on me I definitely don’t agree with him, but just playing devils advocate here.

Everyone is entitled to hold private opinions. People don't have to agree with gay marriage, as long as they don't stand outside gay weddings with a megaphone, protesting
(No I'm not against gay marriage btw)

1 - I know others who feel exactly the same way, which is why I said it. If I didnt, I wouldn't have.

2 - I dont agree with it. I dont agree with veganism either but do I stop others doing what the fuck they like? No.

3 - Again, it's completely possible to not agree with something while simultaneously not giving a shit what anyone else does with their lives.

4 - Congratulations. Good for you. Completely disinterested in how you conduct your affairs.

So he doesn't have an issue with GAY people just them getting married ?

I don't see the issue here. Now if he had an issue with gay people , completely different.

What happens if your child is lgbt? Is your child not allowed a normal family life?

Your man's a dinosaur, as you have correctly identified. A bigot. What you do about it is your call.

So. No such thing as a wrong opinion. Having sex with 12 year olds is a joyful exploration of their sexuality?

So you acknowledge that, despite saying in your previous comment that you "believe that gay people should absolutely have the same rights as the rest of society", you don't believe gay people should have the right to marry, with all the legal protections that it brings? That's incredibly sad. I'm truly sorry you feel that way.

If he has an issue with gay people getting married and having children then he has an issue with gay people.

I once had a very similar experience with my best friend. She loudly proclaimed that is immoral for gay people to adopt, how the child would be indoctrinated and that gay people should not be parading on the streets of Berlin, blah blah blah. I reminded her that only a few days prior to that she attended a dinner party at my house and met a wonderful gay couple, enjoyed their company very much and they are planning to adopt. She was horrified and said that she never realised they were gay and though they were just friends. Well, I looked at her very differently from then on.
But a few years later she made a point of apologising to me for her outburst. Said she had since realised that her views were not acceptable and she is genuinely sorry for ever thinking and saying such nonsense. I have a huge respect for my friend and she gave me hope that people can truly change if you give them a chance and a benefit of a doubt.

I asked him this very thing because that would be a complete dealbreaker as I will always protect my son. He said that of course he wouldn’t care if our son was gay because he loves him and would want him to be happy no matter what. He said he would go to his wedding and be happy for him.

He's entitled to his opinion. Who says yours is the right one? You don't have to agree.

His argument about children better off with Mum AND Dad, he's probably right, children do miss out being brought up by just Mum/just Dad/2 Mums/2 Dads. It stands to reason that different sexes have different roles in parenting.

You could also argue, however that families with Mum and Dad aren't always perfect and could have their own problems such as abuse, etc.

It's a very tricky topic, multi faceted but I do think YABU to be so surprised and appalled.

I always find this a really odd argument. People are not separate from their opinions. They have chosen to hold those opinions, and their opinions are reflective of their values and the very person they are. If you find someone's opinions abhorrent, then it's perfectly correct to find the person equally abhorrent. I wouldn't have a relationship with, eg, a racist or someone who thought we should bring back fox-hunting or an anti-vaxxer. They'd be entitled to hold those views, but I'd be equally entitled to think they were a complete cunt as a result.

Yeah, you should 'tolerate' someone's opinion in the sense that you should accept they're entitled to hold it. But that doesn't mean you have to pretend it doesn't bother you, or act like it's not indicative of the person's character. It absolutely is indicative of someone's character.

If my DP announced that he didn't think same-sex marriage should be allowed, he would expressing a view that people in same-sex relationships shouldn't have equal rights to those of people in straight relationships. I would absolutely think differently about him if that was the case, just as I'd think differently about him if he announced that he believed black people shouldn't be allowed to vote or that disabled people should be sterilised.

Did you not get to know him well before getting engaged and having a child?

If he’s not religious, I see no reason at all for him to care about gay people getting married other than homophobia.

As for raising children, I don’t agree with donor sperm and eggs or surrogacy for anyone, straight or gay, but that's due to the ethics. One of my closest female friends is married to a woman and they have adopted 2 children. They’re fantastic parents because they are lovely people with all the qualities needed to be good parents. No penis required. 😉

I think your partners views can only be based in homophobia, do you really want to be with someone like that?

I'd disagree, he just has an issue with "buying babies "
As for the marriage thing, that's his choice.

Dear god this is tiresome.

Again.

I am against gay marriage. It is my personal opinion. It is an opinion held by a number of gay people.

Me being against something, does not even vaguely mean that I wish to remove choice or "rights" from others
That is both unhinged and a straw man argument.

My preference is and would be for civil partnership because it gives legal protections, without grovelling at the bloody church or apeing heteronormativity.

At the risk of repeating myself, I am also against veganism, but accept that some people want to do it and thats fine.
I dont have to agree with something, in order to accept that others do.

Has that sunk in yet?

You don't have to "simp" for it but you don't believe we should have access to it? It's not about marriage itself for me, it's about people having equal choice.

Totally on board with you on the religious aspect but marriages aren't a wholly religious thing in modern society. They are massively connected historically but that's changing and there are different ways to have a marriage ceremony that don't involve God or the church. Lots of aspects of our society were interconnected with the church which is being gradually dismantled.

There are absolutely NO opinions that someone is not entitled to have.

There are plenty of opinions people are not allowed to act on and that's the difference. We can't police thought, only action. Thoughts might then impact how we punish the action but the action needs to happen first.

It doesn't stop us judging people for their opinions and choosing how we interact with them based on their views and that's because we're all entitled to our own opinions, too.

As ive said repeatedly.
I am against it.
This does not mean that I want to remove the right or choice to do it from other people.