To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

[ImTheGoat]

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

Yes. I do. I think what many women get confused by is that not all choking/strangulation etc is to the point of passing out or to be de-mobilised.

I find spanking/slapping/light biting and scratching a turn on.

At no point as a man, who I have done these things with asked me or pressured me into doing so. It's a discussion that's taken place surrounding preferences etc.

I do not enjoy sex in the making love sense. I do not enjoy light touch, in fact it's off putting to me. Feathery stroking turns me off.

I have been married for 17 years and my husband and I are perfectly matched in this way.

He isn't an animal or a deviant. I know the risks of most everything I do whether that's in bed or in day to day life and women really NEED to stop assuming other women do not just because our opinions/thoughts/preferences and turn ons are different.

I'm so sorry for your loss, @WaitingForSunnyDays 💐Thank you for posting.

So the solution is referees in people’s bedrooms to know when the sleeper hold has gone far enough?

Exactly this. The person who DOES the choking/strangling should be the person accepting that the risk is that they go to prison for a very long time if it goes wrong. 'Risky sex' should not be any form of defence at all. He liked being stabbed, she asked me to wollop her head with a baseball bat wouldn't stand up in court so neither should 'breath play'.
Do it, if you want, but know you could end up dead and your partner in prison for a very long time.

Safe words, taps etc are used to STOP things, for ANY reason. Doesn't matter what it is.

It isn't binary between boring and being choked, of course it isn't. The judgemental views of people who enjoy sex outside of what's considered "normal" are just ridiculous and almost offensive by insinuating that anyone that enjoys it on either side must have something wrong with them, as stated, so long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, leave the judgement at the door of your own bedroom

This is my exact position on this too. If a woman (and it normally is) takes the risk of death or serious injury, the man (and it normally is) can take the risk of being convicted of murder or manslaughter.

So can you explain how someone whose brain is deprived of oxygen because the strangulation has become unsafe can effectively signal a safe word or sign? Can someone genuinely tap clearly in that scenario? How would anyone know unless they’ve experienced that level of compromise?

An idiotic thing to do, in my opinion. It may induce pleasurable sensations, but so does heroin.

Yeah, I don't have an issue with "kink shaming".

I think people who get off on hurting their partners in sex should be shamed.

I think men who get off on pretending to be babies in nappies should be shamed.

I think women who go along with dangerous sex practices, downplaying the risks and helping to normalize the practice for other, more vulnerable women should be shamed.

The very notion of "kink shaming" needs to be challenged. I don't know who first used the expression, but I have a feeling it was nobody very savoury. After all, who benefits when all kinks are normalized and even celebrated?

I don't think any more women actually enjoy this than have ever been into fetish and kink - and of course, there have always been women who enjoy this but they've also always been a relatively tiny minority. When I became sexually active in the early 90s, choking, spitting and anal sex were not a thing. It wasn't something you'd be asked, let alone expected, to be into by sexual partners (and I wasn't exactly a shy, retiring, virginal thing). Now the accessibility of internet porn has mainstreamed and normalised what were previously niche kinks. It's also been extremely persuasive in getting women to buy into being the sort of 'cool girls' who do this instead of the frigid Karens who don't. Patriarchy wins again! I can't help but feel that if choking really was a thing that ordinary women, not into kink or fetish, enjoyed, then it would have been popular for centuries instead of the last 5-10 years or so.

Yeah, I don't have an issue with "kink shaming

Agree. Where did the term "kink shaming " even come from? What a load of shite. Oh how I miss the old days where people could just call stuff out for what it was

Yeah, I don't have an issue with "kink shaming".

Me neither. People judge each other for a whole host of things here, you don't have to bang on about how much you like being spanked or strangled, no one else wants to hear about it, it's often TMI and tedious. More kink shaming please.

I think anyone who says they like it doesn’t realise how much that’s because it’s now ingrained in society. Girls and women are constantly being groomed, to the point that they think they’re making a choice, they actually believe it.

Sometimes something happens in their life and they finally see it for what it is. Until then there’s no helping them because they’ll just repeat that they like it and insist we don’t know what we’re talking about.

The very notion of "kink shaming" needs to be challenged. I don't know who first used the expression, but I have a feeling it was nobody very savoury. After all, who benefits when all kinks are normalized and even celebrated?

This.

But in dangerous sports, your safety also relies on the other participants' actions. If you take drugs, your safety also relies on trusting the person who gives them to you - you don't know what's actually in that Ecstasy tablet, or what the dose is, so you're taking it on trust of another party.

In any case - my point is that the person being choked knows that there's a risk that the choker might not do it right. It is their choice to take the risk of trusting their partner not to mess up, much like it's an acrobat's choice to take the risk of trusting their partner not to fuck up and drop them on their head from a height in a difficult catch.

It's up to an adult human being to weigh up a risk and decide if the risk outweighs the pleasure or not. Personally, I can't see the appeal of being choked in bed - but I also don't see the appeal of many other risky activities that people do for fun. I simply accept that people are adults and can make their own choices. I don't think the fact that this particular choice happens in the bedroom (rather than, eg, climbing up a cliff-face or riding a stunt bike) makes it any different.

I haven't ever engaged in anything like that with anyone I hadn't discussed things with properly nor anyone I didn't completely trust so you're right in that I haven't experienced any of the pre agreed signals not being respected

@ImTheGoat how could this ever be policed? It is a pointless thing to raise - albeit interesting - because what people do in their personal time with a other person, on a sexual basis with consent, will always be between those two people.

I find it perverted that anyone would want to even attempt to red tape (pardon the pun) this sort of thing

I would say more men enjoy choking, than women.

There have been many deaths from choking during sex or sex acts and it’s mostly men.

I think they all know the risks but the high it gives them is addictive.

Exactly the same as drugs, it starts off as light and harmless and then they push things further to high trying to get an even bigger high.

Most people will have safety precautions in place including safe words but things do go wrong.

People should absolutely educate themselves but educating other people would include talking about it in schools to teens.

And anytime there are conversations about things like this being spoken about in schools, many people are very unhappy about it (and often make threads).

So I don’t know what the solution is.

I don't think the fact that this particular choice happens in the bedroom (rather than, eg, climbing up a cliff-face or riding a stunt bike) makes it any different.

It’s more the fact that women end up dead that makes it different, in my view.

But in dangerous sports, your safety also relies on the other participants' actions. If you take drugs, your safety also relies on trusting the person who gives them to you - you don't know what's actually in that Ecstasy tablet, or what the dose is, so you're taking it on trust of another party.

In any case - my point is that the person being choked knows that there's a risk that the choker might not do it right. It is their choice to take the risk of trusting their partner not to mess up, much like it's an acrobat's choice to take the risk of trusting their partner not to fuck up and drop them on their head from a height in a difficult catch.

It's up to an adult human being to weigh up a risk and decide if the risk outweighs the pleasure or not. Personally, I can't see the appeal of being choked in bed - but I also don't see the appeal of many other risky activities that people do for fun. I simply accept that people are adults and can make their own choices. I don't think the fact that this particular choice happens in the bedroom (rather than, eg, climbing up a cliff-face or riding a stunt bike) makes it any different.

Yes, but people are entitled to have concerns about it for women and girls as a sex in the societal sense, and also, as I have said it shouldn't mean that it is free from consequences if you "accidentally" kill someone.

I wonder if there's any data on the number of exclusively lesbian couples who engage in this kind of activity. Does anyone know of any?

But people are also responsible for knowing the risks of what they choose to do.

I get that people like what they like etc, and if it's 2 adults consenting it's no one else's business. However, I personally wouldn't trust a man that wanted to do this to a woman. A man that would do this to a woman is potentially dangerous. There's a difference between a bit of a cheeky bum slap and gentle hair pulling, which can be enjoyable but I know that if I ever asked my husband to choke me he would refuse, because why would he want to cause pain to a woman he loves and respects.

So for people without your level of expertise and in relationships without your level of trust, you can see how it can easily go wrong? Signals, words, taps would be rendered meaningless wouldn’t they? Is there a solution?

I'd never even heard of it until I'd read about it on here. I don't give a shit about kink shaming. It's fucked up.