To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

[ImTheGoat]

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

The reason I ask is because even if you believe the cases for the defendants that it was a “sex game gone wrong” with strangulation, one would assume that the victim was either desperately signalling for it to stop or too incapacitated to make such a signal, otherwise death would not have occurred. So how is it possible to make sure death doesn’t happen?

Female misogynists justifying violence against themselves and other women. Incredibly unhelpful to women’s rights (see tonight sex defence).

Similar to those who want men (and it is men) to kill and eat them, this should be illegal even if people consent to it. If men choose to ignore this illegality and someone dies, there is no ‘consent’ defence.

What's the approximate ratio of women strangling men for sexual pleasure - as opposed to men strangling women?

The power imbalance is truly frightening.

Well obviously. You wouldn't be here if it hadn't worked.

Can you link the other post please, op?

I’m also not judging, but I just don’t get how you’d enjoy that or want to be with a man who likes doing that? Surely there’s something dark in a person like that

@Jellycats4life
No one intrinsically gets off on being hurt. It’s a combination of porn, trauma and wanting to please men.

You are soooo wrong it's embarrassing. Pain receptors and pleasure receptors are very closely aligned and many of us thoroughly get turned on by pain. Not screamingly agonising pain but varying degrees of pain. People enjoy pain in the most vanilla ways. Have you never enjoyed a mouth burning from chilli or had a sore in your mouth you had to keep poking? Humans can enjoy controlled pain

I don't sleep with people I don't know well or trust, I sure as shit wouldn't engage in things beyond "vanilla sex" with someone I wasn't 100% certain didn't care about me enough to make sure I was safe

The fact you’ve had to actually use a safe system to avoid death during sex is incredibly sad. I hope it never goes wrong for you, truly.

If you ‘enjoy’ this it is likely you need help. Or is it ok for people to enjoy other forms of self harm? Would we be ok with our teenage daughters cutting their arms with knives? Or is it only ok if there’s a man there getting off on it?!

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g In Ancient Greece and probably earlier it would have featured in sex acts between men (often a young adult man and an adolescent boy, because that was normal practice in their society). In heterosexual sex it may have been used as a way of avoiding pregnancy. Is there evidence that this was a widespread mainstream practice at any point until recently? It was illegal in the UK for a very long time.

So you give two examples of why anal sex was routine but then demand evidence. Weird.

As I said in my first post on this thread, safe words ARE NOT used because things are unsafe, they're used to stop what's happening, for any reason. Whether that be because it's stopped feeling good, it isn't working the way that you want it to (getting closer to orgasm) or hell even if you need to get up to go pee!

Don't make judgemental comments on things you clearly don't know about

This is not a ‘link’. This is HARM. It should never be ok to abuse someone violently. If the person is asking for this abuse, then the appropriate response is to support them to get help.

A man who ‘enjoys’ harming his partner and seeing them hurt is disgusting. As I said, we don’t support people cutting themselves. But because male pleasure is involved in this it’s somehow ‘right on’ to say it’s ok?! Bonkers!

Ok then, if you use a safe word or a tap because it’s stopped feeling good, what do you and other people do when it becomes unsafe? If safe words and taps aren’t for that, what is, and what will work when becoming unsafe in the context of strangulation is oxygen deprivation and eventual death?

I wasn’t kink shaming nor did I say it was a murder defence? Two purposefully inflammatory and ridiculous statements to make right there. You know full well I wasn’t condoning or referring to extreme incidents such as those. As I said previously if you’d bothered to read it’s about mutual respect and consent. If it’s done with proper boundaries and trust in place and controlled then one doesn’t end up dead. That is obviously why it can be high risk when done with the wrong type of person or a stranger but I don’t know anyone who would participate in it if they didn’t really trust or know the person. Anything else is rape or assault and is a whole different matter all together. Plenty of people partake in being strangled/tied up etc to varying degrees it doesn’t mean they all want to be rapists, paedophiles, murderers and kidnappers. Who’s shaming now? Fuck my life. Noone is condoning non consensual sex acts or murder. If you think this sort of stuff is purely male-led or desired then you need to educate yourself because lots of women desire it or initiate it just as much as men. There are sadly cases where people have strangled people during sex either on purpose or by accident but there are lots of people who do it on a daily basis and continue about their life just as well as the rest of us. There are also people who have been strangled to death in the street randomly or killed in other ways. That’s because some people are psychotic and mentally ill. You can’t stop what goes on between two consenting adults behind closed doors. If it’s not your thing, don’t do it. It’s really that simple.

And you said, while quoting me:

"Still interested to know how one implements a safe word or sign as your brain is being deprived of oxygen"

Tapping like in wrestling often works...

So is that because it’s stopped being pleasurable or because it’s unsafe?

…but women get off on it too.
Someone I know wants to be strangled during sex but her DH won’t do it.

Why is women’s sexuality or sexual desires always frowned upon? Why are women who enjoy kinks like this being shamed and told there “must be something wrong with them” or “they’re trauma impacted” or “only liking it because they’re too engaged in the males pleasure”? Why can’t we just accept people like different things and some women enjoy being hurt during sex and that is what they get off on. Personally I’d hate it but sheesh, if a woman is telling us she gets turned on being strangled, then can we just believe her and not tell her she actually isn’t being turned on, she’s just broken or conforming to the patriarchy. Even lesbians use strangulation during sex, is that just for male pleasure too? What about the woman who masterbate solo and use strangulation?

I think it is different to a BDSM situation because those are supposed to be discussed beforehand and safewords planned etc. I have seen men say they would just do this to a woman without asking and think she was weird if she objected. It’s not comparable imho.

That’s a good advert @MeinKraft thanks for sharing. Also love your username!

If you're doing things correctly nothing should be unsafe, it's about communication and knowing what you're doing, on both sides. But you're clearly in the lay there for a couple of thumps, have a quick cuddle and roll off camp and cannot see that things beyond missionary and maybe the odd round of doggy style might actually be pleasurable for people and I have a lot to be getting on with so I'm going to leave you to your judgmental views and boring screws. Bye

That's a very good point indeed. If it's a relatively common kink that gets a lot of people off, surely you'd expect those enjoying being strangled during sex to be more like 50/50 males and females.

There's no getting away from the fact that, even if a lot of people (sounds like mainly women) DO genuinely enjoy being strangled during sex, that does mean that an equally large number of people (mainly men) must enjoy doing the strangling of another person during sex - unless they are somehow being coerced into doing it against their will - either of which are seriously concerning in their own way.

In reality, it's probably much more like the very large number of men who seem to be very keen to try anal penetration as part of their regular sexual activity, but a very much smaller proportion of them would be equally turned on if their female partner agreed, whipped out a massive strap-on and told him to 'assume the position'.

Any man or woman who does this is the wrong type of person, there is no way to do it safely.
There are adult women with kids on this website who don't understand how dangerous it us, we can see at least 10 on this thread, who think it's OK to call strangulation a kink. It is not ok, can never be ok. It perpetuates violence and the idea to young men that women enjoy being hurt. No. Sex is meant to be sensual. Something that can so easily lead to permanent brain damage cannot ever be said to be ok, just like marital rape and coercive control can never be ok no matter what the victim thinks or believes about their relationship.

Well you've changed what I said - I don't think it necessarily has to be a widespread practice to be normal, in the same way it's not widespread to send your children to private school even though that's pretty normal.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure the events that led up to anal sex becoming illegal in England were the fact that people, probably priests, were doing it. It didn't become illegal in the abstract. The fact that there's a law is evidence of the practice. Besides that, there are Renaissance poems, Japanese stories, Chinese art etc. which demonstrate it being a frequent expression of human behaviour. And no, they aren't all representations of homosexual paedophilia, which is inevitably what someone will be along to claim.

Further to the actual point of the thread though, I stand by my first post and don't want to derail, just point out that there are more normal types of sex than just vagina.

You are very wrong and medical professionals completely disagree. It can never be done safely.

I enjoy BDSM and have, in the past, engaged in this type of activity. Not because I think I'm cool or need to impress anyone, simply because I enjoy the control and implied threat.

However, I read a really informative article on Fetlife about the risks of "breathe play". How there is simply no safe way to do it. The chances of injury are slim but, when they happen, they are catastrophic. A case was cited where a woman had caused brain damage to her husband by consensually water boarding him during sex.

These days, I see a lot of sex educators explaining the difference between a "blood choke", an "air choke" and a "fantasy choke". I now only ever engage in the latter, a hand placed for dramatic effect with absolutely no pressure.

While there may be a pleasure/pain link for an individual, I find it really interesting that CAUSING someone else pain and potentially irreversible harm is generally only sexually arousing to one sex. There aren’t a lot of women who are turned on by strangling their partner, or causing physical pain to them.

Even though I can personally understand why pain would heighten pleasure, I cannot fathom wanting to be with a man who found strangling and causing pain a turn on. Interesting that even on this thread, the people defending it are the ones who like to be on the receiving end. No one is stepping forward and saying they have a better orgasm if they can dislocate their partner’s shoulder at the same time. I’d run a country mile from a man who was turned on by harming or degrading someone during sex.

No hand should ever be around the neck. It is not safe it is not a kink.
Kinks are fine but not if they are dangerous. If they include assault then they are illegal anyway.