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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

653 replies

ImTheGoat · 21/12/2023 11:24

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

We Can't Consent To This

We catalogue the men who claim sex “gone wrong" in the death or injury of a woman or girl. We don't believe that women and girls can consent to their murder, or to terrible injury. There are now 56 UK women and girls killed, and many more injured, in c...

https://wecantconsenttothis.uk

OP posts:
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11
FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 21/12/2023 12:58

The very notion of "kink shaming" needs to be challenged. I don't know who first used the expression, but I have a feeling it was nobody very savoury. After all, who benefitswhen all kinks are normalized and even celebrated?

Yes, exactly. It's a bit like the "Love is love" declaration and those insisting that it can never, ever be challenged, as though it's somehow a legal right - even when (oddly enough) the 'MAP' community seem very keen on embracing it; and, ironically, shaming anybody who criticises them for their proclivities. Honi soit qui mal y pense indeed.

Interestingly, they are also very keen on stressing how minors supposedly 'enjoy' it too - and how YOU are the nasty one for saying that a child simply cannot consent to sexual activity with an adult.

Pelham678 · 21/12/2023 12:58

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 21/12/2023 11:39

Absolutely

And as far as being obsessed with or policing other peoples sex lives goes, once men start to get away with murdering women (which they are ) coz "it was just rough sex gone wrong" then it becomes everyone's problem.

This is the thing. It's everybody's problem. And is a perfect cover for abusive or murderous men: it is a normal thing; she loves it; she loved it; sex games gone wrong etc.

JavaQ · 21/12/2023 12:58

It killed Michael Hutchens

Winterknights · 21/12/2023 12:58

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 12:55

I don't think the fact that this particular choice happens in the bedroom (rather than, eg, climbing up a cliff-face or riding a stunt bike) makes it any different.

It’s more the fact that women end up dead that makes it different, in my view.

Well yes, its the fact that women end up being hurt at the hands, literally, of men.
You can't just wish that dynamic away for convenience of your argument.

Milkbottlewaffle · 21/12/2023 12:59

Admittedly I’ve not RTHT but just wanted to make sure that it was mentioned that non-fatal strangulation is not a crime.

Men will only be prosecuted if it ends in death. It’s a fucking joke.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 21/12/2023 12:59

User0224 · 21/12/2023 12:42

These threads are about as insightful as someone saying “I can’t believe some people like olives.”

Gosh you must regularly feel very underwhelmed with the levels of discussion generally on MN

Confused
YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 12:59

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 12:56

So for people without your level of expertise and in relationships without your level of trust, you can see how it can easily go wrong? Signals, words, taps would be rendered meaningless wouldn’t they? Is there a solution?

Show quote history

Don't sleep with people you barely know or engage in rough sex with someone you aren't certain will care about your wellbeing and safety?

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 21/12/2023 13:00

BMIwoes, great post 👏

VickyEadieofThigh · 21/12/2023 13:00

notsuredate · 21/12/2023 11:37

Does any woman actually enjoy this?

I find it difficult to believe any do.

divinededacende · 21/12/2023 13:01

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/12/2023 11:58

In Ancient Greece and probably earlier it would have featured in sex acts between men (often a young adult man and an adolescent boy, because that was normal practice in their society). In heterosexual sex it may have been used as a way of avoiding pregnancy. Is there evidence that this was a widespread mainstream practice at any point until recently? It was illegal in the UK for a very long time.

Show quote history

I mean, it was illegal because Christianity came along and told us that sex for pleasure was a sin and that any form of penetration that wasn't for the purpose of procreation was wrong. A lot of our laws, even more modern ones, were influenced if not outright lifted from religious values. And let's face it, in more modern times, it was considered the domain of the gays so even less reason to tackle the ridiculous overreach of such laws. Being illegal (particularly older laws) doesn't make something inherently wrong or immoral. It just means a group of which, rich men decided it to be the case through a cloud of cigar smoke.

MinnieCauldwell · 21/12/2023 13:03

I wonder if any women have been in court for 'accidently' strangling a male partner during 'rough sex', I am guessing not.

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 13:04

YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 12:59

Don't sleep with people you barely know or engage in rough sex with someone you aren't certain will care about your wellbeing and safety?

Show quote history

Don't sleep with people you barely know

How “vanilla” 😉.

or engage in rough sex with someone you aren't certain will care about your wellbeing and safety?

Well there’s the rub. I’m sure the women who have died thought they were. I don’t think you’re blaming the women here are you? Are you?

Aydahayda · 21/12/2023 13:04

Sounds like an update on “she was wearing a short skirt”

YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 13:05

SevenOnTheLabel · 21/12/2023 12:52

I think anyone who says they like it doesn’t realise how much that’s because it’s now ingrained in society. Girls and women are constantly being groomed, to the point that they think they’re making a choice, they actually believe it.

Sometimes something happens in their life and they finally see it for what it is. Until then there’s no helping them because they’ll just repeat that they like it and insist we don’t know what we’re talking about.

Why can't you accept that people like different things and there doesn't have to be any deep seated conditioning going on? It's offensive to say that as if people don't have their own minds and free will and no different to saying that people who exclusively like close cuddly sex must have been deprived of affection as a child

YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 13:06

MinnieCauldwell · 21/12/2023 13:03

I wonder if any women have been in court for 'accidently' strangling a male partner during 'rough sex', I am guessing not.

There was a woman recently in the states who choked her boyfriend with a dog lead

Universalsnail · 21/12/2023 13:06

EdgeOfACoin · 21/12/2023 12:49

Yeah, I don't have an issue with "kink shaming".

I think people who get off on hurting their partners in sex should be shamed.

I think men who get off on pretending to be babies in nappies should be shamed.

I think women who go along with dangerous sex practices, downplaying the risks and helping to normalize the practice for other, more vulnerable women should be shamed.

The very notion of "kink shaming" needs to be challenged. I don't know who first used the expression, but I have a feeling it was nobody very savoury. After all, who benefits when all kinks are normalized and even celebrated?

Why do you assume that women don't have their own agency and "go along" with things opposed to enjoying rough sex themselves?

category12 · 21/12/2023 13:06

People can do what they like in bed if they're fully informed and consenting, as far as I'm concerned.

I do strongly dislike when people just pop onto threads and talk about these sorts of kinks as if they're perfectly safe and "normal" (for the want of a better word) and you just do it without any discussion or thought, however. "Me and my guy love it!" sort of thing.

I think it should come with some sort of caveat "yeah me and my partner love it! but we've read up on how to do it safely and he's very fucking careful."

YeahIsaidit · 21/12/2023 13:08

NotBadConsidering · 21/12/2023 13:04

Don't sleep with people you barely know

How “vanilla” 😉.

or engage in rough sex with someone you aren't certain will care about your wellbeing and safety?

Well there’s the rub. I’m sure the women who have died thought they were. I don’t think you’re blaming the women here are you? Are you?

Show quote history

Nobody is to blame for dying but with your assertion that people shouldn't engage in such things because of the risk involved, there's also a risk to hooking up with strangers

SquirrelSoShiny · 21/12/2023 13:08

Winterknights · 21/12/2023 11:52

I actually wish people would look at it from a feminist analysis.

Strangulation has been popularised by deeply misogynistic porn, where (predominantly) men are programming themselves to get aroused by women being hurt and degraded. This porn is also programming women who watch it to get aroused by being harmed by men. Because the honest truth is that much of what we find arousing is culturally informed. I have heard both young men and young women reporting experiences of men getting erections when their girlfriend's cry. Watching porn has programmed this arousal response. We are not born with a sexual arousal response to strangulation or women crying.

In straight couples, its predominantly men choking women. Its about the eroticisation of men hurting women who are weaker than them and unable to fight back.

I personally think it is best for women to reject this eroticisation of them being hurt and harmed by men.

I think its a sign that something is going pretty wrong in our culture that this eroticisation has become popularised.

This x 1000

Str8talkin · 21/12/2023 13:09

This reply has been deleted

This was started by a persistent troll.

Aydahayda · 21/12/2023 13:09

JavaQ · 21/12/2023 12:58

It killed Michael Hutchens

You mean Michael Hutchence of INXS?

he committed suicide by hanging, not really the same thing??

Pelham678 · 21/12/2023 13:09

Olivegardenishome · 21/12/2023 11:55

Firstly, it is strangulation, not choking. Lots of women enjoy this. I don’t (I can’t have anything or anyone touch my neck, ever), but I don’t judge or kink shame. I’m sure any woman participating knows the risk factors involved, they’re kinky, not delinquents. Each to their own and what they want to do with their own bodies is their choice. They usually have safe words in place etc.

Some women I know have loved this since the 80’s when they became sexually active, so it’s not a new phenomenon. Just talked about more now. Just like some women have rape fantasy :( and some have gyno fetish. Some women like to be dominated and some like to be dominant. Some women like romance.

Also, men aren’t getting “away with murder”. Killing someone is unlawful whether it be accidental or intentional. You cannot police what consenting adults do during sex. Leave them be.

Rough sex excuse in women's deaths is variation of 'crime of passion' – study | UK news | The Guardian

Rough sex excuse in women's deaths is variation of 'crime of passion' – study

Normalisation of BDSM enabling abusers to justify fatal violence against women, says researcher

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/10/rough-sex-excuse-in-womens-deaths-is-variation-of-of-passion-study

WhimsicalMoth · 21/12/2023 13:09

I mean I think any 2 consenting adults would already know the risks. Unless they're downright stupid.
There is a way to do it that is not obstructing your windpipe also.. so I'm sure if 2 people were genuinely into this, they'd know that.
The things people are into are just totally none of your business or concern.
Luckily for you I will not divulge into what I enjoy.. but if this seems dangerous to you, you would be positively horrified 😂

agentcooperinthewhitelodge · 21/12/2023 13:10

The problem as I see it is too many men just do it, assuming the woman likes it without even having a conversation first. Many women I know who are on OLD have said the bloke just starts doing it because they've seen it in porn or whatever and think everyone likes it. It has caused a lot of hurt, shock and upset.

With anything like that, there is nothing wrong with enjoying it but a conversation MUST be had first regarding boundaries/safe words/safe signs etc. It really bothers me that men are just doing this without even asking first.

Cathadtwobreakfasts · 21/12/2023 13:11

NC to reply.
Well, I’m a woman with the type of sex life mumsnetters don’t understand. I enjoy choking, rough sex, slapping. So there are women who actually enjoy it for those asking.