To think women who enjoy choking during sex should know the risks?

[ImTheGoat]

In a different thread the topic of choking during sex has come up repeatedly. Some women say they enjoy it and it's none of anyone else's business. Others have said it gives abusive men an excuse to hide behind if and when they murder their partners- see here for some tragic stories but bear in mind they're upsetting https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/

My own point of view is that choking during sex is dangerous. Study after study have pointed out that it can cause death or lead to brain damage. It's easy to find this information online but here's an article about it https://www.webmd.com/sex/what-is-sexual-asphyxiation I do think people should be able to do what they want sexually if it isn't hurting anyone. But I also think people should be aware of the risks. In the other thread people who raised any objection to choking during sex were called "pearl clutchers" or "sex police." AIBU to think no, knock yourself out if that's what you want to do but at least acknowledge it isn't a safe sexual activity?

It's the normalisation and mainstreaming of this, along with anal sex and so called 'rough' sex that is the problem. Enjoy what you want in private, but risky sex should be seen as niche, a kink, because of the potential for harm to young women and girls.

I will just never need to get off badly enough to put my life at risk.

Surely the risk is part of thrill, no?

I like it, I'm very submissive and I like being bitten, slapped, chocked, hair pulled, called names and degraded. I don't know why I like it, I just do. I don't enjoy being degraded nor would I accept it in any other part of my life but I do enjoy it during sex. We have a safe word. The thing is, I would genuinely enjoy my partner choking me until I'm very close to passing out. However, he is not comfortable with that so we don't do it.

I actually wish people would look at it from a feminist analysis.

Strangulation has been popularised by deeply misogynistic porn, where (predominantly) men are programming themselves to get aroused by women being hurt and degraded. This porn is also programming women who watch it to get aroused by being harmed by men. Because the honest truth is that much of what we find arousing is culturally informed. I have heard both young men and young women reporting experiences of men getting erections when their girlfriend's cry. Watching porn has programmed this arousal response. We are not born with a sexual arousal response to strangulation or women crying.

In straight couples, its predominantly men choking women. Its about the eroticisation of men hurting women who are weaker than them and unable to fight back.

I personally think it is best for women to reject this eroticisation of them being hurt and harmed by men.

I think its a sign that something is going pretty wrong in our culture that this eroticisation has become popularised.

"No one intrinsically gets off on being hurt. It’s a combination of porn, trauma and wanting to please men".

Yep. @Jellycats4life has it spot on. We're all being cool girls and want to replicate what our men are watching on their phones for fear they'll leave us.

I honestly despair.

I am having difficulty imagining DH deriving pleasure from even lightly strangling me, and if he did, I think it would forever change how I viewed him as a person. So yes, I do judge this, as well as many other bizarre behaviors people engage in, particularly for sexual reasons. Everyone else can do what they want, obviously, but it's a definite no for me! If I had daughters, I would certainly hope they would steer clear of men who found this appealing, as well.

People have enjoying having anal sex since before the Ancient Greeks - it's always been normal.

@Zoreos

I don’t think we need a study to know that choking can lead to brain damage or death.

Thank you. Some common sense. I once read in a textbook of forensic pathology about differentiating suicidal hanging (in males) from erotic self strangulation with a cord. The presence of pornographic material, 'disarranged' clothing, etc, were key indicators. One description was of a corpse found in a woodland clearing, pornographic magazines arranged in a semicircle. Considering the risk of vagal inhibition, as well as asphyxiation, I'd just as soon play Russian roulette.

And nobody's recommending 'bedroom police'. The new law comes in when some poor woman is lying cold on a slab.

'No one intrinsically gets off on being hurt. It’s a combination of porn, trauma and wanting to please men.'

I have suffered from a good bit of childhood trauma so maybe it's that, but regardless, I really do feel like I enjoy it and it turns me on. So whether it's trauma or not, it's what I enjoy.

The type of choking is important, one of the links mentions the carotid artery which is a blood choke and dangerous and stupid and you can pass out from it easily, an air choke is less dangerous and stops air towards the heart after a sustained amount of time and I can't imagine anyone is just throttling their partner for such a long time. If a man can't tell the difference he shouldn't be using his hands on a woman's throat.
I personally like light choking lower down on the neck, it feels strong and in control.

Firstly, it is strangulation, not choking. Lots of women enjoy this. I don’t (I can’t have anything or anyone touch my neck, ever), but I don’t judge or kink shame. I’m sure any woman participating knows the risk factors involved, they’re kinky, not delinquents. Each to their own and what they want to do with their own bodies is their choice. They usually have safe words in place etc.

Some women I know have loved this since the 80’s when they became sexually active, so it’s not a new phenomenon. Just talked about more now. Just like some women have rape fantasy :( and some have gyno fetish. Some women like to be dominated and some like to be dominant. Some women like romance.

Also, men aren’t getting “away with murder”. Killing someone is unlawful whether it be accidental or intentional. You cannot police what consenting adults do during sex. Leave them be.

Since this is a spill-over from the ‘most shocking’ thread, could I just repeat a plea that those who feel (understandably) strongly against strangling and suffocation, and who are (understandably) concerned about ‘rough sex’ ‘defences’ and want to comment on the law in those respects, research the law properly and get it right.

I don’t ever want to be strangled, in bed or anywhere else. But I really object to bogus statements about how the law prevents it or that there’s a legal ‘loophole’ for violent sex murderers. Both are completely untrue.

I think it should be more on the person doing the choking to know the risks, and I haven't seen that conversation being had anywhere in real life or on the internet.

Strangulation. You’re saying there should be a better conversation among men on how to strangle women safely for sexual pleasure. In GQ magazine for instance?

I don’t know how any woman doesn’t hear a man say “I like to strangle women for sexual pleasure” and run for the hills.

Still interested to know how one implements a safe word or sign as your brain is being deprived of oxygen.

In Ancient Greece and probably earlier it would have featured in sex acts between men (often a young adult man and an adolescent boy, because that was normal practice in their society). In heterosexual sex it may have been used as a way of avoiding pregnancy. Is there evidence that this was a widespread mainstream practice at any point until recently? It was illegal in the UK for a very long time.

There's a fair amount of kink shaming going on here. Safe words have long been used in BDSM and other "rough sex", they are not used to ward off danger or because something is getting too risky, they're used because someone has stopped liking what's happening, for whatever reason. People who enjoy choking, paddling, anything else, haven't been "conditioned by porn" to enjoy it or believe they owe partners something. People just like what they like and so long as everyone is a consenting adult, there's nothing wrong with that

It's the normalisation and mainstreaming of this, along with anal sex and so called 'rough' sex that is the problem.

Why is anal sex a problem to you? If you don’t want it, don’t do it. But a lot of people enjoy it, and it is a normal sexual practice if you choose to participate.

@NotBadConsidering

"Still interested to know how one implements a safe word or sign as your brain is being deprived of oxygen"

Tapping like in wrestling often works...

YANBU and I think a lot of people of both sexes don't fully understand the risks.

Choking during sex is stupid end of. Come on it is! Why do we bother pandering around the obvious so much these days. It doesn't do us any favours.

And if you can’t because you’re too oxygen deprived? And is there a risk it wouldn’t be noticed if it’s too soft a signal?

Of course the ancient Greeks also thought that men having sex with boys was fine and nearly all civilisations have had no concept of female bodily autonomy until very, very recently. I am not sure that appealing to historical views of sex will ever benefit women.

The fact is that porn has made boys expect anal sex and violent sex, and to think that this is just how sex is. Time after time, those who work with young people (and not so young) on this hearing of boys slapping, choking, spitting, hair pullling without discussion or consent, or talking about how girls 'love this' and that is anal sex hurts their girlfriend, it is her fault for not relaxing enough.

There is a massive cultural shift and expectation shift in terms of what boys and men expect sex to be like. And this shift is not benefiting women, it is leading to them being hurt.

We have an advert about this on TV in Northern Ireland at the minute.

Discuss things with partner before hand, have a number of different signals that could be used if things are getting too much, can't speak, tap, if tapping doesn't work repeat or do xyz... Never had a word or tap not work though

I don't think you have a clue what BDSM I'd if you think it is limited to a bit of paddling with a wooden spoon. And yes. Many many women enjoy being fiercely dominated in bed as do many men