Brianna Ghey.

[girlfriend44]

Two teenagers found guilty today of murdering Brianna last Feb.

The murder was plotted on their phones. Discussed between them. The girl had a note in her bedroom found on the floor, of the murderous Plan.

The girl had downloaded the dark Web on her phone and was watching violence and gore and was obsessed with serial killers.

Where are the parents in all of this?
They just seemed to have no idea of what their teens are up to and what they are watching?

Parents are paying for the phone, no doubt, shouldn't they take more interest.

What started out as buying a little payg phone so you could contact your child on the way to and from school has gone way too far.

It's horrible out there what's going on?

Rip Brianna. We have a real problem that people are being evil so young,

Also shied been expelled from previous school lovely young lady.
She came to Briannas school and identified her as vulnerable, makes you wonder if there should be more safeguarding too?

If your expelled from school, why should another school want you. In this case it proved fatal.

@LonelynSad why are you concerned?

Just about every tech person I know uses the dark Web.

It's not just something you download to find a hitman or someone to human traffic.

My 17 year old DD has ASD L2, and was fully diagnosed earlier this year, after 3 years with CAMHS.

She did attack me when she was younger, she would get in such rages I would lock my bedroom door as I was worried she would stab me.

Quite a lot of this was caused as she wasn’t diagnosed, I hadn’t even though ASD might be at the root of this, and I was trying to use “regular” parenting techniques, that were just making the situation worse (the old MN trope of “take thier electronics off them” or “switch off WiFi”)

I had to learn how to parent differently, I had to push to get a CAMHS referral, I had to keep pushing once she was in the system, I had to accept what I could / couldn’t change, I had to admit I couldn’t solve the issues, I had to ask for help.

She’s now diagnosed, medicated, and we haven’t had a violent outburst for well over a year.

I can imagine that young people who aren’t able to access help (as it’s so rationed), who’s parents haven’t changed thier parenting style (maybe they don’t know they are ASD, or, maybe they are following counter-productive parenting techniques), and, who are angry & anxious, would externalise thier frustrations and anger.

What these two young people did was abhorrent, regardless of diagnosis (or lack of it) they knew right from wrone.

I also believe that the lack of CAMHS resources, and the inability to get a diagnosis and help, will lead to more violent incidents, when young people reach a crisis point.

Yes its possible

But there is a huge overlap between children who are violent and their parenting experiences being poor, and a number of childhood ACES

Mix that with any number of additional needs and a fascination with violence or horror and thats a dangerous mix

And while people are talking about phones, even if the odd message were not looked at, didnt she had plans and notes written all over the bedroom floor?

I simply dont believe this child's anger and violence was not visible to the people she lived with, presumably her parents a we also dont know if she was in care or something

@FrippEnos Your reality of parenting teens will be different from another parent, to dismiss someone else's experience is purely BS.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about, I've never dismissed anyone's experience of parenting teens. I asked what your and another poster's experience is of parenting teens in recent years. Because all parents who are parenting teens now, face new issues posed by the internet, smartphones, the dark web, social media etc

you posted
I'm just curious - do you have teens? Because you seem very divorced from the actual reality of parenting teens these days

Somewhat different from what you think you posted.
Just FYI, its the internet posters can see what you posted.

Access to the dark web via Tor is just one aspect of the whole sorry situation.

Depraved material is easier than ever to access it seems.

Yes, psychopaths have always been around, but making access to this stuff easier isn’t going to reduce the amount of times these instances may occur that’s for sure.

But I’m actually most annoyed about the ASD cloak of convenience defence used in this case.

As far as I’m aware, Boy Y was in a mainstream high school, undiagnosed & not even on a pathway of investigation. He wasn’t in a school with a designated provision for autism within it. He wasn’t in a specialist ASD school either.

All of which points to him being high functioning & certainly coping with a mainstream school environment & made it as far as year 11 without red flags being waved. He was also speaking perfectly fine during his initial police interviews.

If I’m up for murder and it’s suddenly convenient to go ‘no comment’ what better way to get this approach rubber stamped than a diagnosis of selective mutism? And then to also benefit from typing out answers in a separate room from the main courtroom thus giving himself more thinking time etc?

So yes, he is officially autistic. But just HOW autistic? After all, we now know he’s a liar don’t we?

As the prosecution pointed out, he said he felt scared of being told off by the police in one instance, but in another instance had problems with understanding the concepts of fear & anxiety?

Liar!

…and it’s very annoying, because with his self serving bullshit he has done the broader ASD community few favours at all in terms of how they are perceived by the wider public.

So yes, he is officially autistic. But just HOW autistic? After all, we now know he’s a liar don’t we?

He's certainly not a particularly reliable witness in terms of describing what happened in the park. He claimed Girl X did all the stabbing.

Nonsense about the right versus left.
Psychopaths are born or made through neglect, their brains are not wired up correctly for empathy. See Jim Fallon, def genetic. However many many people are psychopaths but good enough parenting usually keeps them socially acceptable, they become very successful in business or tech due to their ability to step over others / see the bigger picture. Most psychopaths don't commit murder, they could if they wanted to but they don't want to get arrested, probably don't care enough about others to want to hurt them so would only do it to their own benefit. Prevelance is thought to be at least 1% so in any secondary school you'd have approx 10 psychopaths. But IQ interacts with that and most of them might well be star students. Having autism communication difficulties plus psychopathy could well mean less successful use I suppose.

One extremely successful project in USA for teenage psychopaths (callous lack of empathy in children, violent history) was 10-1 intensive treatment. They found changes in the brain where empathy was starting to develop.
In the UK there is one professor who treats 7-10 year olds with callous unemotion who seems to have good success with actually changing their brain structure so they are not a psychopath anymore.

Really interesting @Boomboom22 and encouraging.

@FrippEnos lol the internet can see what you posted too, and it makes no sense - I've never dismissed anyone else's experience of parenting teens in recent years, as everyone parenting teens now will be facing the same issues - you don't seem to understand those issues, hence why I am asking you what your experience of parenting terns in recent years is. If you don't want to answer that question, that is up to you

You have dismissed others opinions because you do not believe that they are parents.
This is on you and no one else.

how sad that this thread has become full of ableism.
a young girl was viciously murdered. I can understand why people want to find reasons/excuses as to why 2 children did this. but to make it about autism is so wrong.
I suppose those who don't have a child with autism, can say oh well that was why they did it so my kids won't ever do something like that.
maybe they won't but lets hope they are not disablist.

The killers' parents must take some responsibility for raising these monsters. Unfortunately, I don't believe that Brianna's killers are capable of being rehabilitated since there is nothing to rehabilitate. Heaven forbid that they are released back into society under false names.

Whilst watching Brianna Ghey's mother and father speak so eloquently to press I raged with anger. This crime is unfathomable - the question: 'who is to blame?', runs though my mind, but the answer is messy. To blame is our culture that celebrates violence and serial killers. The true crime ghouls who flock to see Emma Kenny's serial killer circus and who buy her serial killer merchandise are to blame, and there are so many of them and their empathyless blood-lust is so normalised, that I actually despair for humanity and the future.

@FrippEnos
Your reality of parenting teens will be different from another parent, to dismiss someone else's experience is purely BS.
Which I have not done, and when I point this out to you you say:
You have dismissed others opinions because you do not believe that they are parents.

Two very different statements.
I have asked what your experience of parenting teens is, which you refuse to answer. I think this is relevant because parenting teens in the current environment throws up certain new challenges, challenges that you and some other posters don't seem to understand

First, the poor child who got murdered. RIP

In my short time on MN, I have read disturbing threads of mums telling us their child attacks them, attacks/ slaps strangers, are violent without notice and are scared they will stab or injure them etc. One even admitted her child scammed someone online which is a crime, but because he has autism or whatever, she refused advice to report him to the police, reasoning that he does not appreciate what he is doing is wrong, so nothing can be done.

Violence, criminality- yet, we are being made to accept it is because they are neurodiverse (whatever that is) etc etc on here. I am surprised they have not started a standalone thread on this, following this murder, probably because they know the majority of people will not agree with them. Instead, the memories of this child whose name is the title of this thread, is being ambushed with such posts hoping none challenges them, or if they are challenged, they attack such posters online as their children attack them physically.

I have watched those threads in horror. Now, here we are. Of course when someone is raped or murdered by the kids whose mums have repeatedly posted and excused their behaviour on MN, the mum won't be posting here.

I have said my side. Off you go as per usual....

I answered earlier on my position on smart phones, maybe you should go back and read it.

If you remember its what started you off on saying that I (and another poster) was not a parent

To those who think the defence lawyers should not have “made excuses” for the guilty DC, can I just remind everyone: that’s their job. Everyone, even if guilty, is entitled to a defence. You might not like what’s said in defence, but a defence lawyer must defend but sometimes they defend the indefensible. As a nation we do know this is important.

I imagine there will be a review of how these children came to be murderers. What was going on in their lives and how they were “patented”? Now they are going to be named, there’s no hiding place for their families, professionals involved, or those who had concerns about them. We don’t know what will come to light.

We also have to try and believe in rehabilitation. It’s a life sentence for murder but efforts will be made to rehabilitate at some stage. Or it could be 70 years plus in prison. Something has gone catastrophically wrong with the lives of these children and we do need to know what so any concerned person feels able to express those concerns about others without fear.

how do you rehabilitate a child that had sone something so vile?

Thank you; I work in this field. Something traumatic will have happened to those children.

They allegedly came from normal households but what if something traumatic didn't happen to them? What if they really are just pretty unpleasant?

Whats a normal household?

I wonder if it was a Pauline Parker / Juliet Hulme type of relationship - two young people so enmeshed they spurred each other on, whereas had they not met, they'd have not killed.

Although looking at some of the things presented to the courts, perhaps they'd have ended up violent whatever the circumstances.

A heartbreaking tragedy, with moments of pure farce (calling Boy Y 'Tesco John Wick' in her phone contacts?) that can't take away from the stupid, senseless loss of a young life.

How does a small community recover from something like this?

Having phones certainly wasn't what caused that poor child's death

@SamcroAs we don’t have the death penalty, and these two are currently not adults, there is always a programme of rehabilitation. You cannot judge what they will become. Do you think they shouldn’t have to think about what they have done? I believe they should and take responsibility for it. When and if they can do this, there might be a slim chance of rehabilitation at a much later stage.

Rehabilitation? After what these two have done, they should be locked up 24/7 in a blacked out 6x4 cell for the rest of their natural lives with only a shit bucket for company.