Think this school policy is ridiculous

[sadbutdontknowwhy]

Secondary school
DS15 has had his phone confiscated for the 3rd time this term.
Absolutely fine, he shouldn't have had it out so deserves the punishment
However, they won't give it back to him at 3.15. A parent has to go and collect it.
Tried to explain that 1, it means one of us leaving work, and 2, he needs it to access the gym straight after school, and 3, it his property but they won't budge. It stays with school until a parent can collect
In no way am I kicking off about the confiscation, but I'm fuming I'm also being punished as well!
Arghhhhh. Rant over.

You are missing the point IMO. We do not have a real choice over schools, nor are most people equipped to properly home school their kids. All parents and kids need their local school to be good (not least because pollution and congestion is increased the more kids who don't go to their nearest school.)

I will not support my kids school if it has stupid rules that are more likely (based on my own experience) to cause him to detest authority than say "oh, I'm gonna decide to be really happy following this stupid pointless rule that serves no actual benefit."

Well, one answer might be to confiscate phones even if the misdemeanour is not phone related given how much kids love their phones and how you lot seem so keen to take away a basic essential from kids.

If you are keen on "reducing disruption" and that is the main concern then simple. Any misbehaviour and the kid gets sent to the hall for the rest of the day to write lines, and if they haven't completed the required number then they return to the hall every day until they do.

But of course school is not about "minimising disruption" only, it is about engaging with and teaching kids... part of teaching is reducign disruption, part of engaging is not taking away their essentials outside of school hours and treating them like toddlers.

I believe that most parents are either engaged or they are not, and I doubt many bad ones suddenly become great parents because the school punishes them for their kid's behaviour... and indeed I suspect that many bad parents side more with their kids than they would otherwise do if they feel the school is being unfair to them as well as the kid.

I think that we need to do huge amounts of things - sure start, much higher taxes on the rich so ordinary parents are further from the breadline and better able to be good parents or stay home more / work less. We need much more practical education for kids for whom algebra is never going to be easy or relevant to their adult lives - I can imagine many disruptive kids would not be disruptive if they were learning to repair a car or motorbike, not forced to study physics.

Some people - I am one - have a very very clear idea of right and wrong, and I get very very angry when I see things that are wrong.

Well, try spending a day in the average state secondary school and you'd see plenty of things going on that are very wrong indeed. That's why schools need to impose rules. And when kids ignore rules, and aren't bothered by things like detentions, what exactly do you suggest schools do in order to reduce bad behaviour? You say it's the punishment you object to, not the rule about phones? Ok then - what punishments would you impose if you were in charge amd trying not to be a 'mini-dictator'?

The problem is, parents are all in favour of rules when their children are on the receiving end of bad behaviour, but as soon as the school uses the rules to sanction their child, suddenly it's unreasonable.

Sometimes on Mumsnet, I wonder how some parents expect teachers to be able to maintain discipline and teach. (Not you OP you sound frustrated by logistics not discipline).

As a teacher, I teach about 140 kids per week. I see most kids I teach for 4.5 hours per week. Some kids find the subject very boring (it is, I did not design the curriculum). It is not 1 to 1 and most 50 min classes have 25-31 kids. If every kid took up 2 minutes of my time with silly disciplinary stuff there would be no teaching time per lesson.

I am not a rule driven teacher, I turn a blind eye to a lot and only punish persistent behaviours as do most teachers as otherwise you drown in admin.

If he has been warned 3x then it will be more than this and will be a persistent behaviour. He is being a twat about his phone - this does not make you a bad parent but the school are flagging it.

Ps. Post COVID behaviour in schools has taken an absolute nose dive. Parental support would really help with this but that has also diminished in my experience. The impact of screens on kids is tangible and teaching is a very difficult profession in terms of classroom management.

Except the school do actually have the right to take it.

Er, I have. Though I don't use it as scanning my phone is quicker. What is your problem?

"I can imagine many disruptive kids would not be disruptive if they were learning to repair a car or motorbike, not forced to study physics."

then surley they need an apprenticeship etc ?

If you are keen on "reducing disruption" and that is the main concern then simple. Any misbehaviour and the kid gets sent to the hall for the rest of the day to write lines, and if they haven't completed the required number then they return to the hall every day until they do.

But of course school is not about "minimising disruption" only, it is about engaging with and teaching kids... part of teaching is reducign disruption, part of engaging is not taking away their essentials outside of school hours and treating them like toddlers.

You haven't the slightest clue, have you? Not a scooby. You have got it into your silly head that teachers have some kind of weird ulterior motive for punishing kids. Guess what - we just want to teach kids without constant disruption, and we want to do so in an environment which is safe and pleasant for all of us.

Do you think we wouldn't just 'send them all to the hall to write lines' if that were doable or effective?

Nope, not one person in my child's school has any legal right to take something which belongs to me, is paid for by me, and which I have given my son to use.

It is actually possible for the school or the parent to call the police.

I mean... do you think we don't remove kids from lessons and put them in inclusion rooms? We can only do that with the very worst offenders, because otherwise there would be far too many of them and they'd need a load of additional staff to supervise them. As for writing lines... that went out with the ark.

Anyway, none of this is much of a deterrent. They don't 'learn their lesson'. You just see the same ones in the room again and again.

Nope, not one person in my child's school has any legal right to take something which belongs to me, is paid for by me, and which I have given my son to use.

Take permanently, no. Confiscate from your child and allow you to come and get it as soon as you like though - yes.

My dds school has the same policy, confiscated items will be kept until a parent can collect. It used to be at the end of term but since smartphones and more expensive gadgets have emerged the head changed the policy. School don't want to risk parents saying the item has been damaged whilst on school premises and teachers having to prove that this is not the case.
Hopefully he'll have learnt his lesson this time and the holiday will do him good especially as These two half terms have been extremely long.

legally the school do have a right to confiscate items from a student if it is in the school policy.
Just because you insist it isn't legal doesn't make it so.@Perhapsanorhertimewouldbebetter

There is no actual written policy at my son's school.

No, they don't.
There is no written policy.

Then you can obviously take it up with them, otherwise they'll hold you to the policy or direct you to the DFE guidelines.

There's no written guidelines on phone use at all, at least we've never been given one and there's none on the website either. Surely for teachers to be able to carry out sanctions the pupils must at least be made aware of what the actual rules regarding use and potential sanctions are?

As it is phone use in class has ranged from them needing one to complete work to being allowed to listen with earphones in supervised study periods/certain classes to being expected not to touch their phone at all in class.

They are allowed to use them during breaks but are reminded to use earphones if there's sound.

It's all a bit vague/variable.

I see, at my daughter's school it was very different. It is a no mobiles past the office school so students getting caught with a phone is alot more serious an offence.
All parents have a copy of the policy on starting in year 7, they and their children read and sign a copy which is kept on file. And at the beginning of the year a reminder of prohibited items is sent to all parents alongside the welcome back email.

I expect they will introduce a policy at some point, but there's been so many staff changes it doesn't seem to be high up the list. My son will likely be finished school by the time they sort something out!

Only read OP's updates. OP your punishments are probably backfiring. You ban him from using his phone or games console at home and you think that will make him less likely to go on his phone at school?

What does your school use volunteers for?
I've never been asked to go into my DC school.

And what would you suggest?

Funny enough, I was talking to him earlier and he mentioned that his history teacher has been forced to change his lessons, and they are now boring, even some of the teachers are frustrated at the lengths the school have gone to

The times he's had his phone confiscated are with one teacher, who he's had issues with. Son yep, while he was in the wrong there is something more going on