Page 4 | To get annoyed that it's another year and I'm addressed as Mr & Mrs Chatnoir by MIL

chatenoire · 2023-12-19T14:23:00+00:00

I haven't even changed my name! I'm still Ms + Maiden name. I'd be more OK with Mr & Mrs his surname, but first name + surname just sounds so anachronistic to me. I've actually made a point by every single time signing our cards the way it should be, but clearly to her it doesn't matter.

TallulahBetty · 19/12/2023 16:35

abominablesnowman · 19/12/2023 16:10

I always wonder what people who insist on these 'traditional' forms of address do when confronted with a same-sex couple. Do they just assign one as the 'male' partner and work from there, or just address to one of them?

They probably don't recognise it as a partnership/marriage/relationship.

HumerousHumous · 19/12/2023 16:41

LikeTheMorningDew · 19/12/2023 16:23

I always smile a bit when we get cards addressed to Mr and Mrs Mike Surname, but it doesn't get to me. It's a relic of a convention that is dying out. The senders are all over 70. And I'll probably miss it when they die and I am no longer Mrs Mike.

I DID take DH's surname all those years ago, no regrets.... but I hate receiving cards or mail addressed to Mr & Mrs husband's initials, our surname. Apparently it's "traditional" and following "etiquette".

Include MY initial(s) please!

MereDintofPandiculation · 19/12/2023 16:49

Mumof2teens79 · 19/12/2023 14:56

It's the way they were taught was correct. Even I was taught that was the correct way.....obviously there us no law to force anyone but I understand older people just carrying on.
I doubt she notices your subtle references in the return address.

Yes, I was taught that Mr and Mrs his-initials his-name was correct. And Mrs her-initials his-name would be taken as an insult as it meant you were divorced at a time when divorce was frowned upon (widows were still Mrs his-initials his-name)

And as I send a lot of cards to people who are older than I am, I am really stuck. Will I offend them more by Mrs His-initials Smith or Mrs her-initials Smith? So I try Mary Smith, but that may annoy them by a having their first name on an envelope for all to see.

But if I'm writing 40 Christmas cards, I can promise you that I'm not spending enough time on each to work out how I can best offend my DIL.

ChristmasSugarplumFairy · 19/12/2023 16:57

If your mate Dave decided he wanted to be known as Nancy, you'd have to comply.
But a woman wanting to be known by her own name and not someone else's must suck up being addressed whichever way her MIL pleases as it's not important?
Some of these replies 🤯
My friend has exactly this issue with her MIL and has decided as she can't beat her, she will join her. The MIL is given a random new surname every Christmas AFAIK.

GodDammitCecil · 19/12/2023 17:06

TallulahBetty · 19/12/2023 16:03

The Berry's what? Do you mean the Berrys? That's fine, if they all HAVE the surname of Berry. OP clearly does not.

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Petty, but I thought this, too.

Smiths and Harpenshaws don’t get the rogue apostrophe treatment, but somehow Berry’s do.

SummerWillow · 19/12/2023 17:10

I once had a place card at a wedding - Mrs John Surname. That was taking this traditional naming convention too far!

MissGroves · 19/12/2023 17:20

Topseyt123 · 19/12/2023 15:21

I do remember being taught (by my parents and in school) that the only correct way to address a letter to a married couple was to write "Mr. & Mrs. John Smith" and that was that. No flexibility at all and anything else was utterly incorrect.

I didn't carry that on far into my adult life. I began to see how utterly ridiculous and misogynistic it was. I realised that although I did take my DH's surname on marriage in 1993, I didn't become him. So I dropped that level of ridiculousness fairly early on even though my own parents didn't.

If I had known back in 1993 what I know now I wouldn't have changed my surname either. I'd grown up pretty sheltered really and just thought it was simply what all women did on marriage, what was expected really and I didn't question it. I would question it now.

We should all respect others and call them by the names they have indicated they wish to be known by.

Too many people probably don't even realise that it isn't automatic that a woman's surname changes on marriage, and that there is no legal requirement for it to change at all.

I'm considering adding my maiden name back into my names.

Edited

I'm the same, I would have kept my surname and have reverted to using Ms now - my husband's title doesn't indicate he is married or single, why should mine? I may consider reverting to my maiden name at some point.

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/12/2023 17:29

Caterpillarsleftfoot · 19/12/2023 14:28

It's traditional. Shame we lose traditions really.

I live in a community of many generations of families have been on the same land and every house/ farm is referred to by the family name "The Berry's / Smiths/ Harpenshaws etc"

It would be so sad if there came a time when family identities were lost.

Women's names are lost 'as tradition'. I suppose its only a shame when men lose theirs is it?

NaughtyBoyGeorgeMichaelJacksonBrown · 19/12/2023 17:36

I got married 13 years ago. I have a wedding cheque and 13 bday and 13 xmas cheques from my granny that i can't cash because she insists it's a legal requirement women take the man's name. Long ago given up mentioning it and am even divorced now. It's not the money - it's token amounts i'd much rather she kept for herself but you can bet my brother cashes his!!

ChateauDuMont · 19/12/2023 17:58

Caterpillarsleftfoot · 19/12/2023 14:28

It's traditional. Shame we lose traditions really.

I live in a community of many generations of families have been on the same land and every house/ farm is referred to by the family name "The Berry's / Smiths/ Harpenshaws etc"

It would be so sad if there came a time when family identities were lost.

Beautifully put.

Maelil01 · 19/12/2023 18:03

JassyRadlett · 19/12/2023 14:29

All traditions? Even the ones that were misogynistic, homophobic and/or racist?

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Why is it misogynistic to use your husband’s name but not your father’s?
I’m firmly feminist but am also keen to have my family all with the same name.

Maelil01 · 19/12/2023 18:08

Maxiedog123 · 19/12/2023 15:20

Clearly doesn't believe women should obtain higher education!

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It works both ways. My other half was Dr then Prof, it’s 25 years but all his (large) family still send post to “Mr”.

Original poster

chatenoire · 19/12/2023 18:22

Maelil01 · 19/12/2023 18:03

Why is it misogynistic to use your husband’s name but not your father’s?
I’m firmly feminist but am also keen to have my family all with the same name.

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Why not double barrel them?

OP posts:

TrashedSofa · 19/12/2023 18:23

Maelil01 · 19/12/2023 18:03

Why is it misogynistic to use your husband’s name but not your father’s?
I’m firmly feminist but am also keen to have my family all with the same name.

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I don't think taking your husband's name is misogynistic, but referring to yours as your dad's name while your husband gets his own is thunderingly sexist.

Onionsmadeofglass · 19/12/2023 18:25

Get a teacher’s red pen and correct the card. And the envelope. She probably won’t see it but it will make you feel better. You can add ´must try harder’ next to the corrections too if you like. And possibly a grade. C- ? D ? F ? Depends how pissed off you are. Then stick it on the mantle piece with the other cards.

JassyRadlett · 19/12/2023 18:26

Maelil01 · 19/12/2023 18:03

Why is it misogynistic to use your husband’s name but not your father’s?
I’m firmly feminist but am also keen to have my family all with the same name.

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Total straw man, really, because that's not what my comment was based on - it was based on the daft idea that "it's tradition" is in any way an argument for keeping something in and of itself - but let's go.

It's a tradition based on sexism because it's all about names as a signifier of ownership. I'm all for people being called whatever they like, but let's be realistic. There is not the same expectation that men will take their wife's name on marriage than the converse, and that is because of a sexist past.

But a question in response:

When does a woman get to own her name? Why is it her husband's name? Why does he own his name more than she does hers, regardless of where they derived either of their names?

If a woman never gets to own her own name - if it's always borrowed from a man - while men have ownership of their names, I think you've answered your own question.

newtlover · 19/12/2023 18:27

It would be so sad if there came a time when family identities were lost.

But what's happening here is that OP's identity is being lost! But that doesn't seem to matter to these 'traditionalists'

tokesqueen · 19/12/2023 18:28

Just spell her name wrongly. Twice.
Both on envelope and in card.

FloofCloud · 19/12/2023 18:28

She's just following her own archaic rules - maybe send her a card
Mr bloggs and ms maiden name
If she says anything just pull her up too

JassyRadlett · 19/12/2023 18:29

Maelil01 · 19/12/2023 18:03

Why is it misogynistic to use your husband’s name but not your father’s?
I’m firmly feminist but am also keen to have my family all with the same name.

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Whose name will you use? Like I've said, I'm pretty live and let live with what people want to call themselves, their kids, whatever, but I'm not really into pretending there's not patriarchy involved. Just as I'm married, but I'm not going to pretend the history and traditions of marriage are rosy from an equality point of view.

I guess the point is that if the automatic next step after "I want us all to have the same name" is the woman saying "so I'll change mine", that's the bit where a very long sexist history is in play.

GodDammitCecil · 19/12/2023 18:30

Maelil01 · 19/12/2023 18:03

Why is it misogynistic to use your husband’s name but not your father’s?
I’m firmly feminist but am also keen to have my family all with the same name.

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This tired old argument.

Change has to start somewhere?

I have a family friend who passed her surname down to her daughter. The daughter then passed it down to her daughter, and now the great-grandson has his mother’s, grandmother’s and great-grandmother’s surname.

Thanks to keeping their OWN surnames, it has long since-stopped belonging to A Man.

festivetinseling · 19/12/2023 18:32

Old habits die hard for the older generations. And of course, some people won't be told anyway, and take a perverse delight in continuing their old traditions even when they know people will be annoyed by it.

JassyRadlett · 19/12/2023 18:32

MereDintofPandiculation · 19/12/2023 16:49

Yes, I was taught that Mr and Mrs his-initials his-name was correct. And Mrs her-initials his-name would be taken as an insult as it meant you were divorced at a time when divorce was frowned upon (widows were still Mrs his-initials his-name)

And as I send a lot of cards to people who are older than I am, I am really stuck. Will I offend them more by Mrs His-initials Smith or Mrs her-initials Smith? So I try Mary Smith, but that may annoy them by a having their first name on an envelope for all to see.

But if I'm writing 40 Christmas cards, I can promise you that I'm not spending enough time on each to work out how I can best offend my DIL.

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I find most people who care about these things are usually fairly meticulous about putting return addresses on envelopes. I've built up a good database of these in my address book over time, which really helps with this problem.

TeaKitten · 19/12/2023 18:33

GodDammitCecil · 19/12/2023 18:30

This tired old argument.

Change has to start somewhere?

I have a family friend who passed her surname down to her daughter. The daughter then passed it down to her daughter, and now the great-grandson has his mother’s, grandmother’s and great-grandmother’s surname.

Thanks to keeping their OWN surnames, it has long since-stopped belonging to A Man.

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So is great grandson now hoping the name dies with him? He’s not allowed to want to pass it on now is he? Because that would be sexist according to you. If you always pass the name down the female line rather than the male line is that not sexist? Are double barrel names sexist too?

OneMoreTime23 · 19/12/2023 18:33

I am absolutely happy to die on this hill.

Anything sent here to Mrs Hisname gets sent back or I ask why they’ve sent something for MIL to an address 250 miles from where she lives.

There is nobody here of this name and “rolling your eyes and letting it go” just reinforces this behaviour as okay. It is surely the most basic of common courtesies to call someone by their actual name?