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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think being asked for money at work like this is not ok?

612 replies

xmasmoney · 19/12/2023 08:48

I don’t know if I’m feeling sensitive about money and actually this is totally reasonable…

We have one dc in full time nursery costing 1500 a month. I work for a professional services company and we have a lot of support staff. We are seen to be paid huge money. However I am only on 63k and we are struggling so much at the moment, some people more senior are on well over this with grown up dc. A month ago a Teams message was started by someone senior saying does anyone want to pitch in for a gift for the secretaries. I found this very inappropriate on teams as it was difficult to say no in a group chat.

I know the answer in practice is just don’t give anything if you can’t afford it but I’ve since been chased on a separate teams message asking if I am contributing and when I ignored that I got an email.

I feel this puts so much pressure on people and think it is massively inappropriate thing to do at work? Am I being a dick?

OP posts:
Vintageport · 19/12/2023 17:20

professionalmum01 · 19/12/2023 17:07

So many jealous people on this thread missing the point. If you can't afford it then don't do it. At one point i was paying £3.5k a month on nursery fee and a £63k salary would just about cover it. And thats just nursery not including other bills. Thankfully our combined income more than covered that but people have no idea how much nursery costs. Its different when they start school. Ours has gone from £1.9k to only £300 a month which makes a MASSIVE difference to our disposable income. You don't need to justify to anyone why you can't afford it. Just be assertive and say you won't be contributing and don't even give a reason. The person collecting won't care as they just want to make sure that noone who is planning to contribute has not forgotten to do it.

Edited

We do know how much the op’s nursery costs are because she put it in her post. It’s £1500- it’s irrelevant that you have paid £3500.

headcheffer · 19/12/2023 17:20

Just give £5 or something??

rookiemere · 19/12/2023 17:21

dottypotter · 19/12/2023 17:15

People are stretched at this time of year, it's an impertinence to ask people for money for people at work.

An impertinence- oh my !

Some of us actually like to reward those in their admin team or providing support during the year and much better to organise a collection than everyone give them a box of cheap chocolates from Poundland as has been suggested.

People shouldn't be hounded to give though, as nobody knows anyone else's personal circumstances really.

MargotBamborough · 19/12/2023 17:22

Boomboom22 · 19/12/2023 15:47

I think Margot might think all 30 Yr olds earn about 63k then when your children leave home you take a secretary job.

One more time, all people of the same age who have the same amount of kids have to figure out either 1500 for nursery or shift work or family help. They all have to live somewhere. The op is better off than all of them who earn less. If she chooses to live in a bigger house or use an expensive montessori instead of the cheapest childminder locally that's her choice.

No student loan never makes your income lower. You pay a bit more but only ever 9 or 15% for post grad. So the more you earn up to 100k you always clear more apart from the child benefit which staggers from 50 to 60k.

One more time, the OP has said NOTHING to indicate that any of the specific people she is being asked to buy presents for ARE in the same stage of life/have the same outgoings as her.

These 30 year old secretaries with kids in full time nursery who work at the OP's company may not exist.

The OP does exist and she only has 58 quid in her bank account. Jeez.

vickylou78 · 19/12/2023 17:23

Op you earn a very good wage! Surely it's okay for senior staff to club together for facilities and admin staff for a Christmas gift. Even if you only gave £3-£5 would be okay wouldn't it.

I know you've mentioned nursery fees but you do realise that the admin staff have to pay nursery too and they are on half of what you earn!
I think you are being tight.

MargotBamborough · 19/12/2023 17:24

Vintageport · 19/12/2023 16:27

@MargotBamborough I can give you an example from my own life, where I do know the variables:

I have a child with adhd- I chose to have him assessed privately, and have been paying privately for his medication and psychiatrist reviews.

This cost around £4000 upfront, and between £120-£170 a month.

After paying this I am very short of money at the end of each month.

However-

I had the opportunity of doing this, it was a choice that I made, and I have something to show for the money I spent- a well supported child.

My best friend has a child who equally needs to be assessed but because she has a lower income, she doesn’t have the option to pay privately.

She hasn’t spent the money I have on assessments and medication, and she is still short of money at the end of the month.

So- yes, at the end of the month we are both short of money BUT in my case it is because I had money and chose to spend it on something, in her case it’s because she doesn’t have the money in the first place.

If you have £58 left at the end of the month after you have paid for your house, car, phone and holiday you have greater spending power than someone who has £58 left at the end of the month but can’t afford a mortgage, a car or a holiday.

That's fascinating, and also completely irrelevant to the thread.

Friendfoe1 · 19/12/2023 17:24

Even with nursery fees you’re still bringing in around 45k and have a partner bringing in money too. I do agree with PPs that you need to look into your spending habits if you only have £60 left til payday.
Just pop in a tenner.

1975wasthebest · 19/12/2023 17:26

SezFrankly · 19/12/2023 16:49

Answer the question then! Jesus H, Tthere’s some poor bastard trying to organise this, and they need to know what they’re spending. If you can’t, just say so. If you feel you need to justify it, just say you’ve had some recent unexpected expenses.

if you’re a senior manager, gifts like this are the norm and should be budgeted for in your salary, just as a nice suit/shoes etc are. Remember this for next year and don’t be so bloody tight. £63k is a perfectly good salary to live within.

You're being ridiculous that people like OP should factor in gifts of appreciation to their colleagues along with ESSENTIALS including their clothes. Only on MN do people think like this.

And no, it isn't the norm. Also, is there any benefit to always conforming to the norm, anyway? Better to be authentic, in my view.

Happyhappyday · 19/12/2023 17:26

I don’t think it is employees responsibility to make up for an employer not paying a secretary very much? And really not appropriate to chase you. I would reply with a simple “unfortunately I’m not able to contribute this year.” And I’d honestly complain anonymously to HR about being chased for money.

dishyrishi · 19/12/2023 17:27

I'm sorry to add this, but I'm a "secretary" (bloody awful word, job doesn't exist any more, we are highly skilled individuals), and I'm paid almost twice what you are... just saying

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 19/12/2023 17:27

MargotBamborough · 19/12/2023 12:53

These responses are getting more bonkers by the minute.

I'm sure if you told someone on 30k that they just couldn't afford to have kids then your comment would be met by howls of outrage. But it's somehow OK to suggest that someone on the OP's salary shouldn't have kids if she couldn't comfortably afford it?

Where is the next generation going to come from then?

Surely if someone on 63k is struggling to make ends meet with just one child in childcare, rather than all piling on and telling her how rich she is, or alternatively suggesting that she shouldn't have had a child if she couldn't afford it, we should be talking about the fact that the system is completely broken.

Not sure about the relevance of your relative to this discussion BTW, since by your own admission her circumstances are completely different. But any economically literate person will tell you that it doesn't make any sense to pay your student loan off early unless your circumstances are pretty unusual.

Show quote history

I don’t quite see how my responses are getting more bonkers by the minute but judging by your many comments on this thread you seem more defensive by the minute.

Of course I’m not saying that people who earn 30K can’t afford to have kids but as a pp said people on lower incomes than OP are generally very good at managing on a shoe string because they have to! They learn to budget.

OP is probably not the only person in her household on 63K and I’m not saying how rich she is, no one is debating that mortgage, childcare under school age and other costs like student loan are expensive for her. I’m saying her budgeting skills look to be in question.

The relevance of my relative to this discussion (she actually manages better financially now she’s moved away from London as she gets more childcare help, less expensive living in London etc), is that lots of people either are or aren’t good at finance management (including her) and I do see lots of mothers of OP’s age who seem to fritter money on things they can’t afford, over-extend themselves on mortgage costs etc and then say they’re short of money on this salary similar to what OP earns.

And actually, I was always advised (maybe I’m wrong) that it was better to pay off loans (including student ones) early if you could afford to do so.

Don’t even go there re “where’s the next generation going to come from then”. That’s not my issue and I didn’t tell people to stop having kids if they couldn’t afford it. I could give you at least 3-4 examples of single mothers who bought flats by themselves, had and brought children up mostly alone until they met someone and earned less than OP, plus arranged and sorted childcare (whether nursery or not).

beanii · 19/12/2023 17:29

Happyhappyday · 19/12/2023 17:26

I don’t think it is employees responsibility to make up for an employer not paying a secretary very much? And really not appropriate to chase you. I would reply with a simple “unfortunately I’m not able to contribute this year.” And I’d honestly complain anonymously to HR about being chased for money.

Please tell me you're joking? 🤦‍♀️🤣

TedMullins · 19/12/2023 17:31

xmasmoney · 19/12/2023 09:34

@Autumnalday @MargotBamborough i genuinely cant understand how 1,550 on nursery fees (after the tax free part), doesn’t explain why I have no money left at the end of the month? 63k after tax and student loans is not much more than that and I have a mortgage, food, petrol costs. Do people think 63k is easily covering this stuff because sadly it is very tight

That’s not true though is it. I’ve just run 63k through the salary calculator tool and after tax and student loans you’re coming home with 3.5k a month. If nursery is 1.5k that still leaves 2k for everything else - do you have a huge mortgage as well or something? How much does your partner bring home?

vickylou78 · 19/12/2023 17:31

Ps. Surely nursery fees are a joint cost for you and your DH? Assuming the children are his? If you are paying more than 50% then perhaps it's a husband issue that makes you so poor?
I've got two children and a salary of £29k and husband £35k so our joint income is basically what you earn just yourself and we can definitely afford £5 for a Christmas gift contribution! Honestly not sure where your money is going?

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 19/12/2023 17:32

dishyrishi · 19/12/2023 17:27

I'm sorry to add this, but I'm a "secretary" (bloody awful word, job doesn't exist any more, we are highly skilled individuals), and I'm paid almost twice what you are... just saying

Actually in theory the job “secretary” does exist nowadays as I’ve seen and interviewed for roles with this title recently, you still get “legal secretaries” too. But the duties now can be done by anyone who can type (or so they can think) and the title now is more PA/EA. I’m not paid twice as much as anyone with title but I agree we are highly skilled individuals and I hate the word “secretary” too. For many reasons!

LightToTheWorld · 19/12/2023 17:33

Answer the question then! Jesus H, Tthere’s some poor bastard trying to organise this, and they need to know what they’re spending

Exactly. We don't have whip rounds for gifts in my office but we do collect money for the office party (public sector). And it goes like this:

"The office party will be £10 this year. Please let us know whether you would like to come"

Half the office reply yes or no.

"The office party will be £10 this year. Please let us know whether you would like to come if you haven't already"

All but 5 people reply yes or no.

"Last call to let us know if you'd like to come"

Still no reply from 5.

Organisers put those 5 down as no.

Day of the office party, 3 of them grumble they weren't given enough chance to reply.

No one gives a shit whether OP contributes. They just want to know what the budget is. Sitting there refusing to respond and griping online instead is really inconsiderate to whichever poor sod has been given the job of organising the collection this year. All the other stuff about who should be able to afford what is irrelevant.

Nothingbuttheglory · 19/12/2023 17:35

It's probably worth putting in a tenner (I'd say a fiver but I just can't, it's so stingy) - small price to pay for not being regarded as utterly tight-fisted/mean. If you're already being personally chased then chances are you'll end up being talked about. You don't want the admin all knowing that you didn't think they were worth a present.

Nosleepforthismum · 19/12/2023 17:38

Sorry things are tight OP but even I used to contribute towards the Christmas gift for the admin team when I was on less than 30k. Give them £10 and you’ll just have to have a basic beans on toast tea for a couple of nights.

peachgreen · 19/12/2023 17:38

On £63k I would go into my overdraft to donate at least a tenner to a present fund for lower paid colleagues, to be honest, and I'd be annoyed at myself for not budgeting for my contribution.

AGoingConcern · 19/12/2023 17:39

Not feeling like you can or want to contribute is ok. Ignoring the question is unreasonable and childish.

Asking in a group teams message and sending a private follow up when you don't get a response to the group message was perfectly reasonable or the organizer. I suspect what you're actually feeling is a bit of guilt and discomfort at your decision not to contribute and you're looking for something external to hang those uncomfortable feelings on.

Answer the person who has kindly taken on the extra responsibility of collecting money and purchasing a gift at a time of year when everyone feels stretched thin. Then you can both move on.

Turtletoe · 19/12/2023 17:41

Give over, I'm not on 2200 either, but I'm also not paying out 1500 on nursery.

PurBal · 19/12/2023 17:44

You don’t need to contribute. I didn’t when I was ask as I also have childcare bills to consider. However, our joint income is less than £63k, and our childcare bills are the same as you. I have 9p in my account until payday (Friday). We have 2 children. Things are tight but I don’t consider our finances dire. I assume you have a bigger mortgage and other bills.

1975wasthebest · 19/12/2023 17:46

It's probably worth putting in a tenner (I'd say a fiver but I just can't, it's so stingy) - small price to pay for not being regarded as utterly tight-fisted/mean.

Some of us don't give a shit what our petty colleagues think about these kind of things. If they want to judge the OP for not contributing, I think that speaks volumes about them.

Iwasafool · 19/12/2023 17:47

xmasmoney · 19/12/2023 09:34

@Autumnalday @MargotBamborough i genuinely cant understand how 1,550 on nursery fees (after the tax free part), doesn’t explain why I have no money left at the end of the month? 63k after tax and student loans is not much more than that and I have a mortgage, food, petrol costs. Do people think 63k is easily covering this stuff because sadly it is very tight

I don't agree with you being pressured to give but you should be picking up a lot more than that. After tax, NI and nursery fees you should have over £2k left unless the payroll costs have changed significantly since I retired, a year ago.

DuesToTheDirt · 19/12/2023 17:48

I am only on 63k

Good grief, my heart bleeds for you.