To think being asked for money at work like this is not ok?

[xmasmoney]

I don’t know if I’m feeling sensitive about money and actually this is totally reasonable…

We have one dc in full time nursery costing 1500 a month. I work for a professional services company and we have a lot of support staff. We are seen to be paid huge money. However I am only on 63k and we are struggling so much at the moment, some people more senior are on well over this with grown up dc. A month ago a Teams message was started by someone senior saying does anyone want to pitch in for a gift for the secretaries. I found this very inappropriate on teams as it was difficult to say no in a group chat.

I know the answer in practice is just don’t give anything if you can’t afford it but I’ve since been chased on a separate teams message asking if I am contributing and when I ignored that I got an email.

I feel this puts so much pressure on people and think it is massively inappropriate thing to do at work? Am I being a dick?

I think the OP is getting a really hard time.

I used to earn over £60k in a very stressful full-time job. Yes it’s a good salary but I was miserable and exhausted. Also after paying for full-time childcare and student loan deductions it’s true that you don’t take home that much.

I now work locally in a job which pays half as much - not a secretary but similar kind of work. Far less stress and no expectation of unpaid overtime etc, unlike my old role. My DH now earns well and we no longer pay for childcare. It’s so much better than my old situation.

It’s really not as simple as “people on higher salaries have it far easier and better and should be expected to shell out for those who earn less”.

Also I think it’s really bad form that the person organising has contacted you directly. Whenever I’ve organised collections I’ve sent a message to everyone with a clear deadline, followed up with a couple of reminders and then whatever has been donated by the deadline is what gets spent. Totally inappropriate to hound individuals separately for a contribution in my view.

It would help if you gave a rough idea of the area you live in. I nearly stopped at £63k, then I read on. If you are in London then people might be a little more understanding.

I am in South Yorkshire, and a £63k salary goes a long way. It's more than twice the average salary where I live.

These threads always go the same way. It's infuriating.

If a woman with a young child who is being taxed until the pips squeak, still paying off her student loan and paying for full time childcare in a cost of living crisis can't come to Mumsnet for support without people acting like she is Marie Antoinette, where can she go for that kind of support?

I lost you at 'only £63k', maybe watch some news or read a paper.

@FreebieHound I agree with you wholeheartedly in this.

The amount of times people have assumed that because I’m a PA/EA I’m on 60K plus, those jobs are hard to come by and require hard work. My previous roles as a legal secretary, especially if you’re not working for a top law firm you barely make 30K in a small London law firm, plus you have the pleasure of dealing with sometimes rude lawyers (colleagues/bosses).

My SIL as a manager was on 60K a year but had childcare costs before this when she was on less money and then when on 60K her son is in school so she paid if needed for breakfast club/after school club.

I agree that if you’re childless you do subsidise people who have children.

If I'm doing a collection for a birthday or leaving at work I send a Teams message to anyone involved saying it's optional and giving a date when I need the money by. I then send a general reminder a few days before but wouldn't dream of chasing people individually. People either don't reply, reply on the chat or reply to me individually asking for my bank details.

So she's spent above her very good income and begrudge a measly fiver to less well paid colleagues who make her job possible?

Yeah, no sympathy here.

OP do you have a partner because nursery fees are their responsibility as well. It sounds like you are covering it all yourself.

£63k is a very decent salary, even in the current climate but you mentioned credit card debt - is it significant?

Who says the admin staff are paying extortionate nursery fees or are worse off than the OP? I work in a large law firm and not a single one of the admin staff in my team pay childcare fees - they are either young (around 20/21) or closer to retirement. They certainly have more disposable income than I did as a junior.

It’s all relative. £63k is not a low wage but we don’t know OP circumstances etc. Mortgage could be high, could support a family member, have high outgoings, debts, Maintenance who knows.

If you can’t afford it then I wouldn’t put in.

Yeah, the MN middle classes have to stick together, how dare those povvos complain amirite?🙄 They're not paying as much tax so they can stuff it.

Our local food bank reckons that it's people like the OP who use them the most. People on low salaries are generally clued up about budgeting and can manage their money more effectively. People in OP's bracket live up to their income and beyond assuming that their income will always increase. The loss of a bonus or job is something that causes their finances to implode and they often lack the skills to live within their reduced means.

A relative of mine at 35/36 is still paying off her student loan, has had her house bought for her by her DP’s, extra childcare supplied free and on a regular basis by her DM and little to no commuting costs (she walks to work). However, even after having DC (first was unplanned) she still prioritised designer bags, accessories, rather than pay off her student loan early. She’s not in especially high paying job but it’s certainly good money for the area she lives in and no London costs as she had before.

Forgive me for not crying a river for her situation.

A few women I know in OP’s situation have put themselves there by having DC and not thinking long term about if they can really afford it. A reason why I chose not to have DC alone (didn’t meet the right man in time) was the astronomical cost if I did go it alone. I’m not alone here either, speaking to friends.

They could just choose not to comment rather than choosing to stick the boot in.

Kicking someone when they're down isn't a human right and won't put more money in your own pocket either.

Then you can’t afford it. No one should feel pressured into paying into a collection for bloody chocolate that might not get eaten.

Our office spent £50 on chocolate- it’s in the office now. Because 98%of staff work from home ffs!!!!! 🙄 We’ve also been told nobody has to go in until Jan! When everyone will be dieting. Sooooooo much consumption. So much waste.

@Circularargument

The "MN middle classes" are having their lifestyles subsidised by hard working people just like the OP who pay a lot of tax but get zero state support.

I have zero sympathy for you folks.

OP is the one that should be pissed off at you folks.

You should be thanking her for working so hard.

Jesus some of you aren’t very nice are you?! OP is saying she cannot afford. You don’t know a breakdown of her financial status, what other obligations she has or anything like that. Just because she’s said “only 63K” is not a reason to pile on. I’m not on anywhere near that, but I don’t feel the need to be extremely snippy for it.

I always find these contribution things stressful. Ideally a “we are doing a collection, if you’d like to contribute whatever amount can you please pay by x date to x person” and then the organiser can go from there. The constant pressing isn’t going to help people who are feeling stretched. And people can be stretched for whatever reason, even if they’re “only” on 63K. Stop being arses.

OP, I know it’s not ideal and you don’t want to share your financial situation (nor should you have to!), but just reply and say as much as you would have liked to, that unfortunately at this time you’re not able to contribute this year and leave it at that.

These responses are getting more bonkers by the minute.

I'm sure if you told someone on 30k that they just couldn't afford to have kids then your comment would be met by howls of outrage. But it's somehow OK to suggest that someone on the OP's salary shouldn't have kids if she couldn't comfortably afford it?

Where is the next generation going to come from then?

Surely if someone on 63k is struggling to make ends meet with just one child in childcare, rather than all piling on and telling her how rich she is, or alternatively suggesting that she shouldn't have had a child if she couldn't afford it, we should be talking about the fact that the system is completely broken.

Not sure about the relevance of your relative to this discussion BTW, since by your own admission her circumstances are completely different. But any economically literate person will tell you that it doesn't make any sense to pay your student loan off early unless your circumstances are pretty unusual.

@Circularargument us 'low earners' not paying much tax, more disposable income than someone earning more than twice our wage and raking in 100's in benefits, according to some ignorant posters on this thread.

63 k is a high salary. Not only.

So £18k of your income goes on nursery - that's a lot left!
Unless you've stretched yourself too far with a silly expensive house or lots of things on finance, I can't see how £63k plus a (smaller) second income leaves you that tight

@MargotBamborough I always find that people sticking the boot in has less to do with the OP at this point and is more about challenging those defending the OP. The OP has probably left the thread ages ago 🤭.

all you know if my salary- you don’t know my family’s income.
There may well be a member of staff on 30k- they may have a 6 figure salary partner!

60k May be great for an individual- a bit harder to raise a family on it.

I hope she has, since she's not getting any useful advice.

I think your situation is related to the changing nature of work and women’s place in the workplace. In years gone by most senior people (usually men) would have worked their way up and often have been mortgage free with teenage / adult children by the time they were picking up the drinks tab for the team at Christmas or paying for the secretaries’ lunch. Nowadays people may get promoted quickly often while they have higher outgoings and don’t feel they should treat those on lower pay, who may (or may not) have lower outgoings. In my experience the only person I have heard refusing to contribute in this way was a woman on a FT equiv. salary of about 68K, but worked part-time and had childcare costs. I also think there is an angle with some (especially younger) people who are doing well in their careers to think lower paid staff could earn more if they just put in more effort / had different priorities and therefore they aren’t prepared to treat them in the way an older senior member of staff, who may well have worked their way up from the bottom, would have done in the past.