To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

If OP doesn't want opinions then she is in the wrong place, it's AIBU.

I don't agree that SIL is overstepping.

That would drive me crazy! The constant undermining and commentary! As the parent you have the right to raise your children how you see fit. If it was the other way around and you were commenting and correcting with more traditional values she’d flip her lid! When she has children she can have the perks of raising them how she wants. The constant add ons would drive me crazy.

I was thinking that.

Especially if it's every time Op says something that she feels the need to correct.

I agree that the 3yr old doesn't have to look pretty for anyone & that would be the thing I would try myself to not say.

I totally subscribe to underlying ideas of SIL but this would drive me nuts 🤣
Probably because she’s overstepping- trying to parent your child instead of you.
plus it’s restrictive ideas
I would immediately counteract to daughter “if you want to look pretty it’s totally okay to want it too”
”Sarah really wanted to bake and is excited about it”
and I would probably have a word with SIL - there are ways to encourage “feminist” interests without crapping on everything else

For some reason I can't see the poll for this thread so I couldn't vote, but no, you are not being unreasonable. Your SIL sounds utterly tiresome. I agree with your SIL's general philosophy, but there's a time and place for everything. It's undermining you as a parent to constantly slip these little "teachable moments" in in response to any thing you say.

Whilst I agree with SIL's sentiments, I was almost on your side OP with the first post. The more you responded, the more I changed my mind. I'm now with her. I do think (based on your side of the story, and there are always two sides) that she may be irritating if she is constantly nitpicking. But I do wonder if your perception is skewed, and honestly... given some of your responses here I might also be "nit picking" some of your daughters options.

I'm proud to be "that" mother, grandmother and aunt to both boys and girls (including to more than one I have no biological relationship with) and have happily "misled" a whole host of children who have, and continue to, turn out having opinions, options, and an understanding of the fact that there are no limits to who or what they can be.

Perfectly put and exactly what I would do too!

Well OP it sounds like you’re already a pretty solid role model of not confirming to societal expectations or girls/women. I really don’t think your dd needs constant performative and grating commentary from her aunt every time she engages in a supposedly feminine past time. Children learn best from being surrounded by positive messages, which they absorb naturally, rather than enduring constant worthy teaching opportunities artificially inserted into their every enjoyable moment. I should think it’s confusing for your dd and often interrupts the natural flow of learning whether or not this is something she enjoys.

You’ve more patience than me because I’d have told her to be quiet long before now!

I’m with the SIL. This is also my approach.

Though I aim to leave the house with everyone wearing clean clothes to go to a party.

It takes a village and all that!

"assuming" anyone will grow up to be or is straight is harmfully heteronormative and the sort of thing that makes it necessary for people to have to "come out" to their parents, and worry about how it'll be taken (even if their parents are actually fine with it). Sparing kids this worry is the least you can do and it's hardly challenging to speak about these things in a gender neutral way.

The idea that women need to be "pretty" is equally harmful. Yes, you've internalised it, heck, I've internalised it, but wouldn't it be amazing for it to be otherwise? So why not do what you can to prevent your daughter internalising it, too?

@BethDuttonsTwin As a bisexual person who is now 30 - in a heteronormative relationship with another bisexual 31 year old who I met at my workplace - I disagree. I spent my 20s in a large city where people are less hateful and for example at my place of work a large portion of people are queer. I have some friends who don’t talk about it and hide their sexuality because of the worry of hate or judgement. I fooled around with both genders since my teenage years and kept it under strict secret until the past few years as it’s way more accepted and I’m a grown ass woman who can accept the small amount of judgemental people.

The statistic taken was not exclusively attracted to the opposite sex, whereas the amount of gen z who identify as straight was 70% That leaves a 20% gap of people who identify publicly as straight but also do not feel exclusively attracted to the opposite sex. So there is no “agenda” to look unique as you feel. The norm is that a huge portion of the public are not just attracted to one gender or the opposite gender.

I wouldn't mind the remarks as such if they didn't interfere with what you are saying to DD. Eg. I think the remark about dating girls is fine but I'd been annoyed about her telling DD that she can stay in her PJs when you had just asked her to change. Otherwise, of course, I agree with what your sil is saying and it's good for your DD to hear it from someone else as well

there are ways to encourage “feminist” interests without crapping on everything else

Exactly!

Respect to,your sil. Good for her. There is nothing she said that is wrong.

plus you gave me the ick when you said you love putting on make up as it’s a form of art. How much are you putting on?

you have a very old fashioned stereotypical female life. The house wife raising kids. Don’t get upset simply as your sil likes to point out to your daughter she doesn’t need to wear dresses or look pretty. Or stay home and bake biscuits. It’s the truth.

Please send your SIL my way I want to be her friend!

Your SIL sounds epic frankly.

I’m with you op, this would drive me nuts! Like you are constantly being undermined! Of course let he go out in pj bottoms and a dirty vest- I’m sure you would get a million calls to ss for neglect! How dare mummy actually get you ‘ready’ in a morning! She sounds absolutely infuriating! I wouldn’t want to tread on eggshells for fear of sil mentioning dd is wearing something pink today!

I don’t think we should fall into one category! That was my point.

i feel sorry for commenters saying that they want to be SIL’s friend. Are you really that desperate and don’t have your own feminist friends?? This is just sad. I have a ton (some of them are as annoying as this SIL to be fair with some performative streak, but some are truly fab). You should revise your social circle if this one person makes you so excited 🙄

@Frasers

the OP has engineering degree and worked in finance
you seem to have very old fashioned ideas about SAHMs and make up
a woman can like many things, both STEM and makeup

I hope people who think OP’s DD needs to be enlightened have taken on board that OP studied Engineering at university. There are few more traditionally male environments.

It’s not a course of study for anyone only interested in traditional feminine pursuits

YABU for assuming your DD wants to date boys- your SIL was spot on to point out there’s an option. YA also BU to encourage your DD to put on a dress so that she can “look pretty”. This is the kind of stuff that messes up girls. 🤮

YANBU and your SIL shouldn't be inflicting her views on your DD. Nobody should ever be in your face with their own opinions on any subject.

My friend has 2 older teenage girls, who were so girly when young, everything was pink and glitter and now they are both into sports, one plays ladies football at quite a high level and the other plays rugby. The rugby player is also into her makeup and hair.

SIL needs to let your DD grow up and make her own choices.

I am with op. Tell SIL to pipe down. Mumsnet likes to pretend otherwise but let’s be honest - the vast majorly of little girls like make up and dressing up. Your daughter is copying her mum applying her make up which is pretty standard behaviour. You raise her as you see fit, it’s got nothing to do with anyone else. Wearing make up and looking good is not a character flaw! If your daughter starts showing a strong disinclination to dress up and be ‘girlie’ then obviously you will be steered in another direction- but by your daughter, not be an overbearing SIL.

Constantly undermining your parenting must be as irritating as hell, and SiL does sound a bit over-earnest and very constant about it. It's a bit, well, 'vegan' of her.

In which case, yes, her behaviour is an overstep. As for the dating comments, whether this stems from a conversation about dating girls or boys is immaterial. If DD is too young, then she's too young.

That aside, I'm in complete agree with the substance of what SiL says. (My boy loves to bake, by the way)!