To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

@VanityDiesHard "maintain that the SIL sounds like some feminazi stereotype"

Oh, behave!🤣

She sounds awesome. The world needs more aunties like her. 💪 She’s building her up.

Where do you think this pressure is coming from? I keep hearing about it, but outside of specific subcultures (ie the pageant set) I just don't think it is is quite as prevalent as made out. I am 40 so was a child in the 80s/90s, and I didn't feel 'pressured' into liking girly things, I liked what I liked, and that was 30-35 years ago! There is even more awareness now that women can be scientists and men can be makeup artists, etc. Virtue signalling bores like the SIL don't need to shout about these issues, they should watch and observe what the children in their life are actually like and enjoy doing.

@VanityDiesHard "Virtue signalling bores like the SIL don't need to shout about these issues, they should watch and observe what the children in their life are actually like and enjoy doing."

And ENTIRELY coincidentally, the child concerned likes wearing pretty dresses, baking and putting on make-up. What are the chances, eh?🤣

Societal expectations are still prevalent. There might be more awareness but it doesn't change the fact that men are still more likely to be scientists and women are still more likely to be makeup artists, it certainly isn't a coincidence that it conforms with societal norms.

@CurlewKate Is there anything actually wrong with a 3-year-old enjoying baking, wearing dresses and putting on makeup though? Will it prevent her from becoming an engineer like her Mum?

My DD is studying engineering and plays on a sports team. She also likes to do her hair and makeup when she goes out. 🤷

IMHO . . . I think that the sister-in-law is being a pain in the ass. She isn't offering alternatives, she's undermining the mother's parenting. I think she will be disappointed if her niece ends up dating boys and wearing dresses. It's the same old "cis is so boring" crap that kids are being bombarded with daily. If she ends up dating a girl, the aunt is definitely not going to say "or, you could also date boys". It's not about options, it's about which options, it's about favored options. That is not the same as letting the little girl decide for herself. She had a great time baking with her mother - why did that need to be undermined?

I understand that SIL may be coming on a bit strong, but I think it's really sad that you think her stance is "damaging." She is trying to empower your daughter, and to recognise that women are often disadvantaged still.
If we tell our daughters that they can be whatever they want to be, and that they don't have to look a certain way for the sake of others (totally fine if they want to do it for themselves) then they'll probably grow up more confident in themselves.

You’re both right and neither of you is wrong. I like your SIL.

I’m with your sister in law on this one.

Haha, Yes b&b does arguably have a problematic ending, but the moral/ lesson of the story is that it is shallow to value external beauty , which is only skin deep / an illusion, and that true beauty is found within. Sounfs like you might benefit from reflecting on this?

There are several points to note:

1. not everyone is able to conform to social standards of attractiveness, it’s disgusting to make someone feel their value is routed in their looks.

2. much greater emphasis is placed on the importance / value of being attractive for women and girls. (Please don’t gaslight us all by trying to claim other wise).

3. OP offered her DD two choices of clothing - both dresses - then tried to compel her to comply by telling her if she put on the dress she would “look pretty”. Through this simple exchange she communicated many things to her DD: a) girls wear dresses b) looking “pretty” = wearing a dress c) pretty is associated with girls , as girls wear dresses d) being pretty is a valuable and aspiration goal of female personhood.

These messages are pervasive, they are powerful and they are toxic to the mental health and wellbeing of women and girls everywhere.

But you're their mother. You get to say that at times that are appropriate.

This is unwanted intervention from OP's relative, poorly timed (the small niece was excited and proud of her baking)and undermining the parent. Would you appreciate that?

Why do you think it isn't 'coincidental'? How much time do you actually spend around small kids? I am not a mother, but I work part time in daycare and I can tell you that kids of both sexes like all kinds of things, dressing up, sports, play of all kinds. It was the SIL politicising that and trying to make a big self important statement about it, unlike the OP who was just getting on with parenting her child.

If it was a MIL who was undermining the OP and refusing to acknowledge an achievement that their grandchild was proud of, would you be saying the same thing?

SIL is completely right. You are training your daughter to be a slave to the patriarchy and feel worried if she doesn’t conform to her female gender.

I think everybody regardless of sex should learn to cook. It's a basic form of looking after yourself. As a child it's fun to join mummy in this.
3yr old is a bit young to stand for 90mins in the cold but of course she should be given the choice.
My mum would have me in tears everyday when trying to get me into a dress for school. I preferred trousers as easier to climb trees etc. At 7yrs I wanted to be a boy and cried because I couldn't change. At 14yr I discovered boys in a different way and was so glad sexual transition hadn't been available then as they would have put me on hormone therapy before then and i wouldnt have had my DC. Your being a great mum and don't let anyone tell you different.

I disagree SILs comments are not damaging. Her pro choice comments should not be aimed at specific things the child has done.. By all means she should point out crap advertising and otherspecific gender generalisations, but she should keep her comments to herself otherwise as it is obvious from the OPs own experiences that she isn't hell bent on raising a 1960s housewife.
We don't all have to be shouting about feminism constantly to promote freedom of choice. It's just undermining the OP and the DD in the examples given.

Yes definitely 😂

Also, make sure she never makes another cupcake and refer to her as "they".

I think your SIL is overstepping the mark. What does yr husband think of her comments. I wonder if she had her own children would she be so pass remarkable about your child? I think u and yr husband should have a chat with her and tell her how you feel. If you don’t address it now she won’t stop.

Suppose this. Suppose that. Yawn.

You write this dilemma to a website full of the most anal feminist woke extremists and expected to get a fair response? This is the website saturated with 'we hate men because purely because they have a d*ck' females (not allowed to use the term female now apparently).

I cannot stand your sis-in-law. Her comments are dull, not edgy, shows her personal insecurities and I have no clue how you haven't murdered her thus far. Personally I would LTB and never entertain her again. Monotonous twat that she is.

Is SIL gay?
Not that I know of and I don't suspect she is. She's told us about going on dates with men, although always first dates and very rarely any further dates.

Was she often encouraged to be 'pretty'?
I've never heard her parents encourage it! Although I know she was bullied at school for not being pretty.

Was she pushed into hobbies she didn't like because 'it's what girls do'?
No, barely did any after school activities.

Could this perhaps have an impact on her desire to have children of her own?
She says she doesn't want kids now and perhaps never!

What is the relationship like with MIL for both you and SIL?
I think my MIL is great, always ready to help with DD but never overbearing. Has very wise advice but never butts in. She's raised DH to be a very decent man.
SIL is close to her although often gets into debates about why MIL cooks for FIL, why MIL said this or why she thinks that

I’d be annoyed. She’s pushing an agenda. Just let the child be and enjoy her activities. If I’d arranged an afternoon of baking, or anything else, for my daughter and I, I’d find it undermining for someone to turn up and disparage it and suggest she could have gone somewhere else. It is not your SIL’s place. I’d have a word as it’s discouraging your daughter and it’s highly critical. I say this as a professional woman who believes women and girls are equal to males.

I think you’re SIL sounds alright and I might have made the first comment myself 🤷‍♀️ The other stuff might sometimes be a bit ‘off’ in terms of timing, but you need to talk to your SIL about not grumble behind her back!

It is extraordinary to me that these very mild comments are considered extreme. And the "Is SIL gay?" question is beyond offensive!