To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

Certainly a SAHM can be a feminist, although I don’t think many are.

An SAHM who could not support herself and her DC if required, an SAHM without equal access to the family money - I am hard pressed to call these women feminists, although perhaps I am missing something. But a parent who has chosen to spend some time intensely involved with childrearing and taking charge of the home for the benefit of all, with the funds to do this right and her partner’s respect, is in a powerful position. She can model feminism for her DC

It wouldn’t be my choice but I respect it. It seems pretty rare.

Feminism is about supporting other women’s choices. It is about equality of opportunity which means women can choose to stay home to raise children. Doesn’t mean they are a doormat.

I’d hate it but I support the choice.

@MsRosley im going to be really annoying now

Beautiful is a word I LOVE

It's more than pretty

More than looks

It's the whole package and doesn't need clothes or make up or trappings and I think it's a delightful compliment

Words are very important to me obv 😂

But the OP SiL isn't doing that. So not the same

I'm the niece in this situation. My mother was a dreadful role model for her daughters. Her view was that girls should just be there to be pretty. Being pretty, feminine and ladylike were prized above any other way.
Luckily I had an aunt like this one. One who taught me that being pretty was not needed and it was better to be confident, clever and outspoken.
My mother hated her SIL and constantly reminded her that she wasn't a proper women as she didn't have children. My fab aunt just shrugged it off and made sure my sisters and I knew she was always there, even after my mother banned us from seeing her and banned her from our house.

We used to sneak out to see her because she was interesting and talked about things like university and being independent. She open our eyes to a whole different world.

Today my sisters and I all work in good careers. My youngest sister has children, but two of us don't. We are all financially independent and hold strong feminist views.

OP I don't know what upbringing you are giving your daughter and I don't really care, but surely it's better to have girls grow up surrounded by different women leading different lives and being bold and confident in their choices. After all, as women like me are told often enough by mothers, does t it take a village?

So when your daughter was three and ran to you with something that she'd made and was proud of, but was a traditionally feminine skill, or pink or something, instead of praising her, you told her that she didn't need to do that, she could have gone and played football instead? Really?

You're not annoying at all. And words are very important to me too.

I think it's really tough for girls growing up in such a looks-oriented society, and whatever reassurance and confidence we can instil in our daughters as a bulwark against all the insecurity to come is a gift we should never shrink from giving. It's slightly less important in sons, because society isn't so hard on them looks-wise, but I still tell mine they look handsome, especially when they've clearly made an effort.

Hell, we even tell old women they look gorgeous when they've had their hair done or whatever. It's a kindness, something nice we do for people. Everyone loves to feel they're presenting their best face to the world, and to have other people's appreciation reflected back to them.

I think the first one really needed to be said to you, because I don’t think it is good that you have automatically assumed your daughter will date boys, you need to be more open minded.

The other examples might be construed as interfering, although personally I thought provided a good balance with your more appearance, girly focus.

I am baffled as to how you could possibly think any of those examples are potentially damaging. I would love to hear your explanation for that and apologies if you have already explained, I am still working my way through your replies.

Mumsnet was the wrong place to post this, Op.

Your SIL sounds like she's deliberately undermining your parenting. FWIW I also made similar comments to my girls and it was lucky as my eldest is in a same sex marriage and she knows I fully support her choice. They both also know that looks, appearance, clothing are unimportant. However, it sounds to me like you're doing a great job with your DD and SIL is trying to have more of an influence than she needs to, at a very early age and in a way that is judgemental of your own ability to parent your daughter.

Why can’t we have a thread that touches upon feminism without men being randomly shoehorned in as victims?!

Did I say I don’t comment on those things?

You are her mother. SIL needs to back off a little. She means well and her intentions are good but you know your daughter better than she does.

I agree with you.

It honestly seems as though there is a lot of black and white thinking in the replies.

Yes, girls need to hear the message that they can do things.

At the same time, most people like to hear that they look lovely.

I tried to give similar messages to my sons and my daughters. It can be much more relaxed than some posters here are saying. I have been known to tell my daughters they look handsome, and i told my son he looked 'pretty' on his wedding day. With love and gentle humour.

They all know they can do pretty much anything, and that their mum thinks they are beautiful, and that they can love anyone they choose.

I quite like SIL's ideals, but seems OP has got it pretty much covered, and without being a twat about it!

I think SIL is setting a really good example.

@AnonnyMouseDave

“Or if you are a fake tan / make-up always / lip filler type person”

What are you trying to say? That you can’t be a feminist and still like those things?
if so, you might want to check your prejudices

An SAHM who could not support herself and her DC if required, an SAHM without equal access to the family money

these are odd statements. Having (independent) money doesnt define feminism and the second part sounds a bit victim-blamey. Theres nothing inherently antifeminist about pooling resources with a partner, dividing labour, and taking on a particular role in that division of labour. I think where it becomes anti feminist is where there is a justification of inequalities based on a belief in the natural, inferior status of women. Unfortunately this often is the case where men and women take on traditional roles, because traditionally women were seen as inferior to men and their different roles were understood as naturally reflecting that inferiority. But it doesn’t have to be that way in a modern relationships.

sorry a bit of a word salad, it’s getting late 😂

So if op listened to her SIL and stead of dressing her to go out to the
party she left her in her dirty vest and pj bottoms with one sock.
I think there would be a few concerns about ops parenting lol!!
If she listened to SIL - She would have got a visit from social services !

Did I say it was the same ?

I was giving an example of how girls are treated differently from a very early age.

The sil sounds great.

Ah I see, so my disabilities make me not a feminist.

The SIL's heart is in the right place, but the immediacy, bordering on corrective following on in the examples given is a PITA. I agree with what she says, but her timing's shit.

She didn’t have to put her in a dress though, and tell her that she should wear it so she “looks pretty”. I really don’t understand some of the party dresses mums put their young girls in. Kids at that age like to run around, the best parties have bouncy castles, why on earth put them in such impractical clothing that’s going to restrict their ability to be fully mobile and have fun.

The dating comments impress a man is ridiculous for that age group, yadnbu!!

I think you're being a bit unreasonable. Sounds like your SIL is just trying to counter all the sex stereotyping around (and that's not what 'woke' means).
and she has a really good point about being the dating thing too.

SIL is obviously involved and loving presence . But ultimately, you’re the parent and if you don’t feel comfortable with some of her remarks, it’s up to you to reaffirm your boundaries.