To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

Again, nobody has said it’s inferior, just not very feminist. I think you’re projecting there.

@Naptrappedmummy not understanding your post 😂 when talking about dating that doesn't mean asexual and most people prob don't have to come out as asexual, they just don't bring a partner home.

But why reinforce boyfriend from the age of THREE? Why mention dating at all but if it must be mentioned then at least don't reinforce only the heterosexual option. How much hard does that make it for the DD if she is gay and knows her parents expect her to date boys?

And yes - comfortable is a great option - however the point i was trying to make that you're either choosing to miss or cant comprehend is - don't reinforce the requirement for girls to be pretty to go out. whereas 'clean' is apparently what OP meant plus its a pretty reasonable expectation

@MrsAllsorts

Does your SIL ever were makeup?

Not really, in the 9 years I've known her she's worn make up 3-4 times max and very subtle, maybe some mascara and that's it.

Does she dress up or would she go out looking like a slob because appearance doesn't matter? Despite what she says, do her daily habits, clothes etc, match the convictions she spouts at YOUR daughter?
She doesn't exactly walk around in dirty clothes but she wouldn't dress up either. Although she does own clothes that have stains on them that won't wash out or rips but will continue wearing it, point out the stain / rip and say she will continue wearing the item because it's comfy. Which is her choice and I wouldn't comment on it, in the same way I'd prefer she didn't tell me how to dress.
Or she has said she will go on a date with a guy straight after going for a run in the park without coming home to change or will roll out of bed and not necessarily do much aside from clean her teeth and if he doesn't like that she's dressed in sporty clothes / looking flushed / no make up / she has bed hair then he's too superficial and it's his loss, she's not interested.

How did she attract your brother?
She's single, she's my SIL through being my husband's sister as opposed to my brother's wife.

Which makes you an exception. Generally, it involves a woman becoming financially dependent on a man. Lets not pretend it doesn't for the majority.

Of course you can still be a feminist, in a sexist society it would be almost impossible to always make the feminist choice.

Sure, sure 🙄

There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling your daughter she looks pretty or your son that he looks handsome. If anything, not getting positive affirmations like this from parents/other significant adults makes it more likely that kids will grow up feeling insecure about their looks. Let's face it, who really takes offence when someone is kind enough to compliment how they look. The only time it matters is if girls get the message that looking nice is the most important thing to aspire to, which OP is not doing.

I think it’s pretty uncommon yes and even more uncommon for women who’ve taken time out to be able to slot back into their careers at the same level. Sad but true.

To pretend that lots of women are solely funding their time as a SAHM is just silly. As I keep saying, nothing wrong with being a SAHM but people seem to get very defensive about it.

I already said that, so you’re agreeing with me. And I haven’t spoken for any other woman. I said I was a SAHM and a feminist and you and another poster told me I was wrong.

I’m not wrong. You don’t get to tell me what I am and how I live: you don’t get to ‘out-feminist’ me, it’s pathetic.

Yea but there are ways to do this without making it out of their control - people can't help being pretty or not

So - DD you look lovely, really smart and I love what you've chosen to wear - is less stereotypical, praises the child's choice AND looks in a way they can influence

It's a minefield but I really don't want my daughter to value herself for prettiness or deride herself for a lack of prettiness, so try not to mention it

I wouldn't have suggested wearing dirty clothes though as an alternative 😂

You do seem to like wild assumptions. I said no such thing.

And there is far more to life than cleaning bathrooms. It has to be done but there is no need for anyone to get excited about it. Anyone can do it.

Stop twisting my words. I haven’t pretended anything, I said I was a SAHM and a feminist. You said I wasn’t because SAHM mums rely on their partners money. I said I didn’t and it was as uncommon as you think.

People get defensive because of your petty little comments about how we can’t be feminists. You don’t own feminism and you have no rights over it. Dont tell me what I can and can’t be.

May seem daft but I do try to use more neutral compliments OR more specific compliments to reference my kids looks

Eg you look lovely
So grown up
Really smart
Love how you've done your hair
Outfit is amazing

Less about 'looks' iyswim but still about how they have chosen to look?

Somebody needs to move with the times yes people absolutely come out as asexual these days, what do you think LGBTQIA stands for?

If you read the post the boyfriend comment was made to the SIL, not the child.

As for point 3, no she isn’t going to have a complex from her mum using the word pretty flippantly now and then. I tell my DD she looks pretty all the time, and I’m sure everyone will disapprove of that. She however loves a compliment.

I broadly agree with SIL's sentiments, but not the way she's expressing them. She sounds like an interfering, preachy, pain in the arse.

I said that it isn't a feminist choice, I didn't say anything at all about if it makes the actual person a feminist. You got defensive and made that assumption.

Sorry to quote you again!

I did also get the impression from what OP said that she implied the only reason to get changed was to 'look so pretty' - that was the motivation.

Not to look smart or wear clothes she had chosen or to meet a dress code for event. The only reason was prettiness. OP has since clarified she meant clean so perhaps she will think more deeply about what she wants to communicate to her daughter

Well it is a feminist choice for me.

I agree 100%. Your DD will hear many things from many people but at the end of the day she will make her own way. It’s good for her to get varying perspectives.

This is how I talk to my daughters...I love your sister in law!

Jesus, obviously touched a nerve. I haven’t said you’re not a feminist, I don’t know you! I said being a SAHM is not a very feminist thing to do, which it isn’t. And I respectfully disagree, I think it’s highly unusual to self fund as a SAHM.

I agree with SIL on 1 and 2. It's important to point out that a person can be either straight or gay and have different interests.
No. 3 I disagree with because it's not about looking pretty, it's about dressing appropriately. If you're going to a formal event you have to dress formally, whether that's dresses or trousers and this is at almost every age so she's wrong about going out in PJs.
You're wrong about the other stuff.

Then I trust you compliment her for other things. Ones not related to appearance.

The issue is the expectation that girls have to be pretty to get approval. There needs to be positive comments on behaviour, achievements, attitude etc too as a balance.

Well, as I have said all along, it was a feminist choice for ME. End of. You said it wasn’t possible, I said it was in my case and you have, for some reason, continued to tell me I am wrong.

And you can disagree, but as I said it’s not as uncommon as you’d think.

I don't disagree exactly but I remember someone - Chekhov? - writing something about plain women only get very specific compliments, like 'you have lovely eyes' or 'you have great hair'. I remember when I told my (incredibly feminist, tom-boyish) daughter how beautiful she was and her whole face lit up with pleasure and reassurance. (My mother never did that for me. I grew up thinking I wasn't pretty enough, and it did untold damage to me emotionally and in relationships.)

@Naptrappedmummy not sure why you are being so aggressive or targeting me but I'll reply one more time

I know asexual exists, I was referring to the outdated process of 'coming out' usually because one is dating or interested in dating. In terms of sexual orientation- which does not necessarily mean asexual.

it's also one thing to talk about dating and not assume one sex over another.

It's another to go through the entire acronym. They were specifically talking about dating being a distraction which rules out being asexual surely?

And it was clear OP assumed DD will date boys - a damaging assumption that she doesn't need to teach her daughter.

And yes - the way OP used pretty as a persuasive technique i disagree with, and it isn't a compliment I like. That's allowed just as much as you are allowed to use it - the difference is I don't feel defensive over my choice, unlike you.