To feel annoyed at my mum’s expectations when moving to the Caribbean

[Ticklemeharder]

My mum currently lives about 10 minutes away from me and my two DC’s (age 1 & 3). She’s recently moved in with her partner of 18 months and is very happy and in love. Her partner has had some issues with work in the UK but used to work in the Caribbean and has applied for a number of jobs there which he feels confident securing. They have told us all this in the last week and are planning to relocate in January.

My mum is currently in a huff with me when I expressed concerns over the speed of the move and questioned whether they had thought everything through etc. When asked how long they were planning on living out there I was given a very vague answer of “oh maybe a few years but who knows!”

She just keeps on going on about the white sandy beaches and glorious sunshine and won’t it be a fabulous adventure. Reassuring me that she will still have a relationship with the grandkids due to the invention of FaceTime and we can come out to visit once they are settled over there.

There is also an expectation that I will deal with renting out of both her and her partners properties as they won’t have time before they go. Not to mention my mum’s 8 year old dog who my mum seems to think a family member will just take her because “no-one will see her in a shelter”.

All of this just seems completely out the blue and I’m struggling to be supportive. It’s almost like she’s so focussed on the fantasy that the reality has not even slightly entered in her mind. I’m not sure what to do.

No you haven't. Tell her now that it's more work than you had anticipated and she will need to do it herself and factor it into her travel plans. Be very clear and don't take no for an answer.

Having worked as a letting agent, believe me it's not a job you would be offering to do for free. You can get phone calls at 3am saying the house is on fire, the roof has caved in, the property has been raided by the Police and so on.

Tell her you won't be doing that for her and tell her she needs to sort out a letting agent before she leaves.

I can understand your concerns as it all seems really rushed. Particularly as her partner doesn't actually have a job out there yet. Can you maybe try and persuade her that he should go and secure work and somewhere to live while she gets things sorted here?

When it comes to her renting her house. I would emphasise that you offer to help is to help her clear her house and get it ready for rental. And she should be the one to sort through her stuff. You can't be expected to clear her house on your own! And I would be very clear it needs to be let and managed via a lettings agency. You don't want to take on being a landlord with your own young family to deal with.

You can’t control what she does, even if you feel it’s questionable or rushed, you can only control how you let it impact you. So if you feel that her expectations are too much communicate that and say you’re happy for her to go but you can only do x, y, z. I’d also mention about the wedding to her and just mention the friend thought you knew. I wouldn’t want to keep me knowing to myself.

They can live in her house whilst they sort out renting out the properties. He could get a different job, he doesn’t have to work in his chosen field.

If she gets overwhelmed with the hard work in her house, why can’t her partner help her?

This is the man she plans to marry and yet she is still relying on you to do the drudge work of clearing out her house and all the other aspects of renting out a property.

It sounds like they want to run away and leave all the bad bits for others to pick up.

She's living in dream land. The caribbean is beautiful for a holiday but i imagine it will be very hard to just relocate there and build up a great life unless money isn't an issue. I love going to Jamaica, its beautiful country but man, the locals have it hard. Wages are rubbish, they need to pay for all healthcare, but on the flip side they all seem very cheerful and chilled. How are they going to live?

I just can't get over the fact she's prepared to just give away her 8 year old dog.....wtf is that all about. She needs to take her time, sort her own property out, wait until the dog is no longer here and then think about it. How can she honestly think they can up and leave in January. Utter madness.

Just say you can't be responsible for her renting out her property and that she and her fella will have to deal with all that.

Say now that you can't be involved any more with sorting out her house, helping while she is nearby is very different to being solely responsible while she is overseas. In fact, employing a professional company to manage both properties makes good sense. Your mum will also need to arrange for things she doesn't want to take with her to be disposed of or stored - a good time to declutter.

I think you should be supportive of your mum's adventure, while sad she won't be living nearby. Lots of children still 'know' and have great relationships with GPs who they don't see in person very often. She knows of your disapproval (not telling you about the proposed wedding) but you'll have more influence if she feels you want the best for her. Even though you have concerns she is an adult and you need to trust her to make sensible choices.

Yes it is, you can put the brakes on things just by asking her who she will be employing to oversee the property, when she says you then you can refuse. She might get arsey but it's not on as it's a huge ask.

I imagine OP that you're feeling a little hurt that you mum is so quick to give up her close proximity to her daughter and GC to live thousands of miles away with a man she's known 18 months? If so, it's a tough one, because while of course she has the right to happiness, its only natural for some us to prefer our parents idea of happiness to include a close relationship with us and our DC.
So, if that resonates, I think you need to be kind to yourself and allow yourself to be upset, while accepting there isn't anything you can 'do' about it. Your mum is clearly very invested in this idea, is most probably at a life stage where she wants to grasp opportunities that are unlikely to present themselves again and will almost certainly not be deterred. So much as we need to smile and wave our children off on their adventures, all you can do here is the same.
The practicalities are a different matter. There is no way I'd be taking responsibility for renting their houses. They need a property management company. Nor would I adopt a dog I didn't want, so you need to be firm on these things.

Personally I think if you’ve voiced concerns about speed and whether she needs to go straight away rather than follow on once and these have been dismissed then I think you have to leave her to it. She can make her own decisions. If she asks you directly that’s different but otherwise I’d stick to some anodyne phrases, “sounds great, if you’re sure that’s what you want then go for it” etc. The more you pick holes in the plan the more wedded to it she’ll become.

On the practical arrangements YANBU AT ALL and I would be very clearly saying now what my boundaries are re the flats and the dog, that you have more than enough to do and are simply not in a position to help, and that they have to sort both out themselves before they go. And then stick to it if you’ve given them fair warning (plus getting a cat and/ or an allergy if necessary!). Otherwise it will be your fault if they end up with nightmare tenants, or want to move back in and can’t, or if the boiler brakes or the dog is ill.

Given what you've said about her partner and the potential scam vibes this is giving off, have you done a 'deep Google' on him? Did it seem to authenticate him or did nothing much come up? I'd be tempted to hire a private investigator to do a background check on him.

I know there's Clare's Law with the police for certain situations, but it might be worth ringing the non-emergency line to see if it would mean disclosure of possible fraud concerns too.

Your mum seems to have been love bombed, as someone mentioned above, and it seems is now being encouraged to isolate herself far from support, and to keep secrets from you. I can see why this doesn't sit comfortably with you. As you say, she's living in the fantasy, and she seems to expect you to pick up the reality.

I'd hand back dealing with her hoarded belongings and cleaning her house ready for rental too, or at least make it very much a joint effort where she has to deal with the reality plus spend time with you (away from her partner) that might give you a better understanding of what's going on in her relationship.

If his court case doesn't go the way he expects is he absolutely sure he'll be able to work in Jamaica or will he/they be relying on the rental income from the two UK properties (which they both think you are sorting out for them) as your DM can't work? Has he a firm job offer already?
You need to reset your DMs and her partners expectations around what they need to sort out legally on their properties before she emigrates. Maybe he can go on ahead whilst she finalises sorting the properties.

I think I may have been watching too many fraud stories on TV but something is off with all this. Especially when they're hiding their potential marriage from close family.

Her partner has had some issues with work in the UK but used to work in the Caribbean and has applied for a number of jobs there which he feels confident securing.

This would ring alarm bells for me - it is all happening within the next month. They should see how things go re visas etc before involving all the rest of the family. He should sort everything since he knows the country. Hope it is all on the level and your Mum gets to enjoy the sunshine and white beaches for a while if that is what she wants.

She is moving WITH her partner though.

She doesn't have to give up her life forever to be near her grand kids... I know plenty of kids who packed up the grand kids and fucked off away from parents they never get shit.

I do actually have friends that I can talk to, they just all live HOURS away from me because we grew up, moved away and live our own lives.

Aside from everything else this is a huge red flag. Hopefully you know more about this situation and are confident what you have said here is accurate. Is he running away from something???

you can’t stop your mum, but the hiding of a wedding from you as her child when you otherwise have a good relationship and she expects you to tidy up after her is just not right. I would raise it with her.

i think you need to be braver and kick back about helping with sorting the rentals.

also has she ever been to the Caribbean? Like most tourist places the living there is very different to visiting. Has she checked health care provision is she has medical conditions?

realistically she is an adult and can well adult, but you don’t need to facilitate it all because they can’t be arsed.

I agree a good agent can take most of burden from you. Expect to pay 12% for a very good one

dont go with a cheap agent: caught out by that when exh decid3d to save money. Agents took no responsibility to deal with difficult and problematic renters who, steered in right direction, could have been ok. As it was agents did not intervene with mass condensation issues form drying washing inside over radiators and we were left with enormous bill to completely treat and redecorate the house.

even with agents, it is still not “no work”, there’s stuff to do annually, your mum will need to do her tax returns etc. if you have great tenants tab at stay for a few years it can be easy. Poor tenants can make your life hell, stressful in same way as poor landlords can make tenants lives hell

also mum needs to know laws are changing rapidly, if she needs to come home in a hurry she won’t just be able to turf tenant out, it could be months to regain her property. In Scotland it’s even more difficult now.

personally it’s a mugs game I’d certainly not take on for anyone else. Wouldn’t want responsisiblty if stuff goes wrong. Homes are emotional

Rental and dog aside I would be very concerned about this man. You say "He is British and high up in a regulated career. He is currently dealing with a dispute which means he is unable to work in his current field until it’s resolved (if ever) and his savings have all been used up in the court case."

Could he possibly be facing a criminal conviction? He can work in another field. Why would the dispute may not ever be resolved? Do you only have his word for it that the savings have all been used up? Why the Caribbean and not nearer i.e. Europe? No disrespect to your mum but why would somebody in a 'high up' job want to marry a woman who is unable to work and has a 'modest' house.

You may not be interested in any inheritance and just want your mum to enjoy herself but you may feel differently if she is fleeced, 'modest' house and all, by this man.

^A large proportion of current landlords who are abreast of the proposed changes are selling up.

Taxation is on turnover, not profit so it's possible to pay taxes on loss making rentals.

Plus you clear her stuff to where?

Clearing a house can take a long time. Not a job yiu want if you have little dc, they are enough work on their own. .

This really has a whiff of a Walter Mitty scenario. I would be stalking the shit out of his previous life (es).

It's an aside, admittedly, but the 'Caribbean' isn't really an amorphous whole when you're talking about living there rather than visiting on holiday. The islands are different sizes and face different issues, whether that's political, import/export or violence and drugs problems. It would help to know where your DM's partner is planning to live @Ticklemeharder

Not sure what to say. I am sorry if I implied you had no friends. I was just responding to your point about being lonely on a warm beach.

I have actually upped sticks and moved half way across the world. I have lots of friends in the UK but it was hard without a support network where I moved to, time differences and all that also made it harder to chat. Despite having a DP there. I had a great time in the end and managed to make friends but it was not easy and I came back after 3 years.

My mother also lives in a different country from where she was born and she found it hard also when she moved with her DP into what used to be their holiday cottage. It was totally different to being there on holiday.

I'm not trying to pick fights with you. I am trying to help the OP. I agree with the OP that moving abroad, no matter how lovely the destination, is hard. But her mother can't be told this by the OP, she'll probably need to find out the hard way.

This, from @OlderandwiserMaybe

"With this update and the length of your Mums relationship I'd be seriously concerned that the mother is in the middle of a relationship scammer.

Setting aside the issue of who should be responsible for the dog and renting the house out.

I think I;d be more interested in what the partners motives are and his background TBH.

These scams develop over years - and especially with talk of a "secret" wedding before they leave for Caribbean I'd be wanting to protect my mothers assets (not for my own benefit but for the protection of the mother). A friend of mine works in finance and he's currently trying to help a client who has lost their entire life's savings to a scan that involved plans to move abroad - spoiler alert the "couple" never moved and the scammer has vanished with all the money."

It's a classic scam pattern. The guy claims to be high up, important, had a great career, used to being wealthy yada yada yada to build your DM's confidence in him, he just doesn't have any money NOW. Next thing is "good news, I won £££ in the court case but can you lend me £10k while it clears".

If he's worked in an industry for years but now he's involved in an expensive work-related court case, he's financially dodgy even if he's genuine.

Why would being in an intelligence-related field (claimed often by scammers as an excuse for secrecy) mean he's involved in an expensive work-related court case? If work goes wrong in intelligence and you are physically safe, you go to prison (breaching secrets act) or you retire/quit. An expensive court case would be more related to commercial work. He's got his stories confused.

Do everything you can to get your mum to stay here, not marry him, take a little longer to decide, and be alert for him asking to sign money or legal power over to him.

Your mum is an adult, be happy for her that she’s found an adventure and is brave enough to do this. You don’t have to agree to take on any of the work though, they can get an agent for the rentals and I don’t see there’s a reason she can’t take the dog with her?

‘Mum moving to Caribbean sounds a really exciting adventure - can’t wait to see what you get up to. Just to be clear though, I have a lot on with the kids and my own stuff, so I’m not able to help sort your house or take on any responsibility for it or the dog while you are away.’

Don't do anything !!
Let her go, its her life. But I wouldn't be dealing with any life admin she leaves behind
She can get professionals to deal with the houses and dog if she is in too much of a hurry to get it sorted.

I recently moved to the Caribbean and would NOT recommend it for anyone in financial difficulty. It is horrendously expensive: rent, food, clothes, furniture, electronics... plus travel on the island (you really need a car), between islands and to go back home.

Depending on the island there is also the healthcare aspect. I'm on a French island and although it's no more expensive than in France it's VERY difficult to access. We visit dentist, optometrist etc. when we go back to visit family. My kids have SN and for their meds we do video calls with their Dr in Paris...

Talk things like this through with your mum. What's her plan? I spent months researching this before agreeing to the move.