Page 5 | To agree with Nigel Farage?

nds241 · 2023-12-11T09:12:52+00:00

I expect to be completely flamed here! But I find myself agreeing with him. I've been watching TV this morning and have seen him do a couple of interviews following his exit from the jungle. I voted Remain back in 2016 and have always voted Labour. So in the past I've obviously had very different political views from him m, but everything he said this morning about a population crisis, there being no real leader of the opposition and the Conservative Party being in a complete shambles made sense. I think he does speak a lot of what maybe others would be afraid to say. I honestly feel confused as to why I find myself agreeing with him. Tell me I'm being unreasonable!

Nelliemellie · 11/12/2023 11:47

He was campaigning for Brexit, which has made immigration worse. The Europeans were virtually kicked out.

Peablockfeathers · 11/12/2023 11:47

alkinetyh · 11/12/2023 11:37

I think you know full well that is not what @BIossomtoes was suggesting. The point that we have massive gaps in our workforce and big groups of people queuing up wanting to work legally is a pretty simple one to understand.

Social care of course isn’t the only gap which is causing huge issues in our economy. We’re lacking many many skills, and have an ageing population to support from a tax perspective which our current birthrate from british nationals cannot sustain.

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Are there many people queuing up though? Lots of (wonderful) nurses that come to work for the NHS from abroad now use it as a springboard to other better paid countries with better working conditions- Australia, Canada etc. Can't blame them! We are a low wage economy now with crumbling public services and social care sector; hardly aspirational for many when there are global shortages of many of these occupations.

Dadstheworld · 11/12/2023 11:49

Farage is great at sounding pretty sensible to the man on the street, much of what he states is fairly sane, however I've never heard come up with any practical solutions.

Comedycook · 11/12/2023 11:49

NoCloudsAllowed · 11/12/2023 11:45

My sister is a teacher. She says having Eastern European kids in class actually usually improves results because their parents have a much more no-nonsense approach to discipline and homework. Less of the 'how dare you tell off my little angel' mentality. More of a sense of wanting to make the very most of the opportunity to learn and build a life here.

You know very well that not many British people emigrate to Poland, Latvia or Lithuania. Part of the reason is that we left them to Stalin after WWII in a pact that the people of those countries had no real say about. Lots of Poles fought within the British army in WWII then had their country handed over to a Communist dictatorship for their troubles.

Quite a lot of people from former USSR and Soviet bloc countries might have an interesting perpective for you.

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My grandfather was polish actually and my grandmother from the former Soviet union.

I have nothing against people from EE. And like British kids, some are well behaved and some are badly behaved. That's irrelevant.

My point was that freedom of movement is only a good idea if the countries are economically comparable...f.o.m between the UK and Germany or France is much of a muchness. Between The UK and EE, it was very much one way.

LongDarkTeatime · 11/12/2023 11:51

Out of interest, when people speak about feeling there are problems with migration, which type of migration are they speaking about?

Is it the majority which is rest-of-the-world migration which is now increased and written into trade agreements (to plug massively reduced trading with EU)?
Is it the proportionally very small number of people who arrive on boats (but is disproportionately focused on by this Gov)?
Or is it the thousands of asylum seekers waiting disproportionate lengths of time to have their requests reviewed? Remember the queue is only so long as civil servants who addressed this were moved to deal with Brexit. Plus they aren’t allowed to support themselves by working.

TheThingIsYeah · 11/12/2023 11:56

I love the "what population crisis?" replies on here. Are people really that naive? Sure, if you are the average MNetter (£200k salary, house in a naice area) it might not affect you....yet. But it will, and when the penny drops that migration levels of 700,000+ pa are unsustainable, I'm afraid it's all going to be too late. Nigel did warn you.

Southpoint · 11/12/2023 11:59

I am glad to hear people are opening to sensible discussions. Facts are facts and overwhelming immigration is not good for the country. It brings poverty if it is mainly low skilled people is much worse. Farage was always right on immigration issues. I never dislike him or dismiss his concerns. Now may be too late. The government lets be honest has walkedon egg shells as the people just shout racist when this is discussed. You want the benefits of a first world country. You need to control who comes here.

leilani83 · 11/12/2023 12:03

NoCloudsAllowed · 11/12/2023 10:53

He's very good at politics. The things you mentioned have objective truth at the heart (ageing population and falling birthrate, tories are a mess, starmer isn't exactly firing up the nation)

However he then discreetly leads people to a cause of the problem and a solution that don't make sense.

Eg immigration. Maybe it's been too high, that was a calculated decision by politicians who could have restricted it under eu rules. Farage heaped up everything on immigration and blamed it for housing crisis, difficulty seeing a gp etc. Proposed brexit as a solution. Brexit means France now under no obligation to stop refugees heading to UK so volume of refugees arriving goes up. Need a new foreign bogeyman so they pick on echr. Really we just need sensible rules, competent government and international collaboration.

They're all about getting people riled up with a sense of being hard done by but they never have positive solutions. It's all about getting rid of regulations and authorities to let corporations do whatever they want. They make it sound like it's about individual freedom but before you know it, you're on a zero hours minimum wage contract, the waterways are full of shit and etc. They don't believe in civil society.

Farage was in the national front and flirted with nazi stuff at school - he's the same person, he's just found a respectable mask to wear.

This.

StoodySmithereens · 11/12/2023 12:04

I heard him in the jungle saying that we can’t get a Dr appointment because of immigrants. He did it to hit a nerve with the people. But I must admit that I’ve thought that for a long time now.

BIossomtoes · 11/12/2023 12:08

StoodySmithereens · 11/12/2023 12:04

I heard him in the jungle saying that we can’t get a Dr appointment because of immigrants. He did it to hit a nerve with the people. But I must admit that I’ve thought that for a long time now.

The reason people can’t get a GP appointment is nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with the government fucking up and underfunding the NHS for 13 years.

Lampzade · 11/12/2023 12:08

NoCloudsAllowed · 11/12/2023 10:53

He's very good at politics. The things you mentioned have objective truth at the heart (ageing population and falling birthrate, tories are a mess, starmer isn't exactly firing up the nation)

However he then discreetly leads people to a cause of the problem and a solution that don't make sense.

Eg immigration. Maybe it's been too high, that was a calculated decision by politicians who could have restricted it under eu rules. Farage heaped up everything on immigration and blamed it for housing crisis, difficulty seeing a gp etc. Proposed brexit as a solution. Brexit means France now under no obligation to stop refugees heading to UK so volume of refugees arriving goes up. Need a new foreign bogeyman so they pick on echr. Really we just need sensible rules, competent government and international collaboration.

They're all about getting people riled up with a sense of being hard done by but they never have positive solutions. It's all about getting rid of regulations and authorities to let corporations do whatever they want. They make it sound like it's about individual freedom but before you know it, you're on a zero hours minimum wage contract, the waterways are full of shit and etc. They don't believe in civil society.

Farage was in the national front and flirted with nazi stuff at school - he's the same person, he's just found a respectable mask to wear.

All of this

GrammarTeacher · 11/12/2023 12:11

Immigration is not the issue with the lack of GP appointments. It's the lack of GPs. Lots of my students want to be doctors. Few GPs, partly because they've seen the racist abuse many GPs get locally. Nobody should have to put up with that. NF isn't that clever and he certainly isn't a man of the people. He's a nasty, racist hypocrite and the country would be better off if he wasn't platformed so much. Don't forget how often he has failed to be elected to parliament.

howrudeforme · 11/12/2023 12:18

Population crisis, well yes in terms of housing and facilities.

but he fails to say we need more migrants here to help buffer an ageing population and our economy is based on many businesses relying on cheap and expendable labour. Additionally we can’t recruit to many roles in health and teaching.

so at face value he’s right and we’d all agree but it’s the lies/xenophobia etc and his complete disinterests in trying to keep the economy afloat that it worrying.

brexit was voted on for feelings rather than facts. That’s what he plays on.

Comedycook · 11/12/2023 12:21

Net migration was 3/4 million last year...and yet all our problems with social care and filling vacancies etc are still with us. How many more people do we need?

anotherside · 11/12/2023 12:21

Immigration is too high when measured against public services ability to cope and house availability BUT we need immigration to be high because immigrants are now filling (or partly filling) massive shortages in mainly public sector professions - healthcare, doctors/nurses, teaching, care work…

The public can’t or won’t do these jobs as the Tories have been complicit in creating a cost of living crisis AND in making public sector jobs badly paid and a toxic/overbearing environment.

Immigration isn’t still high for jokes - it’s because the country will collapse without it. So with their current rhetoric the Tories are having their cake and eating it all the while taking the public for mugs. Which, to be fair, many of them are.

Southpoint · 11/12/2023 12:23

@GrammarTeacher part of the problem is to deny and shut people when trying to debate this.

anotherside · 11/12/2023 12:23

@Comedycook

Net migration was 3/4 million last year...and yet all our problems with social care and filling vacancies etc are still with us. How many more people do we need?

The whole country is massively reliant on a steady stream of immigrants. You can slowly turn off the tap IF other measures are in place (which until now the Tories have shown no interest in doing). But you can’t just suddenly turn it off.

Comedycook · 11/12/2023 12:24

anotherside · 11/12/2023 12:23

@Comedycook

Net migration was 3/4 million last year...and yet all our problems with social care and filling vacancies etc are still with us. How many more people do we need?

The whole country is massively reliant on a steady stream of immigrants. You can slowly turn off the tap IF other measures are in place (which until now the Tories have shown no interest in doing). But you can’t just suddenly turn it off.

I didn't say we need to stop all immigration.

And this is the problem...when you express any concern at all, it is assumed you're against all immigration.

This is why we can't have a sensible debate.

It's so tiresome

Southpoint · 11/12/2023 12:25

Exactly we have masses numbers in the last two years and still people are calling for more. When will it stop. How many do we need?

Crikeyalmighty · 11/12/2023 12:29

@NoCloudsAllowed and it's a big difference- in recent years pre withdrawal agreement it was mainly younger single people, not whole large families who will undoubtedly stay put.

When we lived in Denmark the Danish system policed hugely the 'workers' aspect and again no right to benefits - in the UK the gvt simply couldn't be arsed with setting up departments to do this and that's the problem with the UK- it has CBA syndrome - and hence people take advantage of it- it was the same for many years with the NHS too and non EU residents. And as for the non EU migration in Denmark they had whole teams out constantly looking for black market workers . That's why some of the 'non legal' migration try and chance their arm here- we have been much more lax on such things.

Lampzade · 11/12/2023 12:30

anotherside · 11/12/2023 12:21

Immigration is too high when measured against public services ability to cope and house availability BUT we need immigration to be high because immigrants are now filling (or partly filling) massive shortages in mainly public sector professions - healthcare, doctors/nurses, teaching, care work…

The public can’t or won’t do these jobs as the Tories have been complicit in creating a cost of living crisis AND in making public sector jobs badly paid and a toxic/overbearing environment.

Immigration isn’t still high for jokes - it’s because the country will collapse without it. So with their current rhetoric the Tories are having their cake and eating it all the while taking the public for mugs. Which, to be fair, many of them are.

Absolutely this

TheThingIsYeah · 11/12/2023 12:32

@Southpoint you'll need more and more since the country is run as a giant Ponzi scheme. But no worries, we're told everyone is a net contributor to HM Treasury's coffers so nothing to see here.

Flamingbow · 11/12/2023 12:35

I dislike NF and disagree with a lot of what he says, but he hasn't ever said we shouldn't have any immigration. Lots going about health workers etc are purposefully misconstuing that.

TodayInahurry · 11/12/2023 12:36

He tells the truth. Outside of London people with their luxury beliefs, people are absolutely furious about immigration at 745,000 let alone the dinghy invaders. They are also beyond furious about the intimidation marches in London and other cities. I believe in France they use water cannons on them

Clavinova · 11/12/2023 12:37

NoCloudsAllowed
Brexit means France now under no obligation to stop refugees heading to UK so volume of refugees arriving goes up

Yes they do - we're paying them. We've had separate bilateral agreements and treaties with France for many years;

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9681/

Why don't Southern and Eastern European countries have an obligation to stop the onward progression of refugees to countries such as Germany and the Netherlands?