To agree with Nigel Farage?

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I expect to be completely flamed here!

But I find myself agreeing with him. I've been watching TV this morning and have seen him do a couple of interviews following his exit from the jungle.

I voted Remain back in 2016 and have always voted Labour. So in the past I've obviously had very different political views from him m, but everything he said this morning about a population crisis, there being no real leader of the opposition and the Conservative Party being in a complete shambles made sense. I think he does speak a lot of what maybe others would be afraid to say. I honestly feel confused as to why I find myself agreeing with him.

Tell me I'm being unreasonable!

@Comedycook

Net migration was 3/4 million last year...and yet all our problems with social care and filling vacancies etc are still with us. How many more people do we need?

But you posed a fairly pointless rhetorical question at the end of it. Obviously right now we still need a high number - circa the half million mark (which includes a a significant number of overseas students). The fact that you have high profile Tory MPs saying “enough is enough” when they’ve been the ones in government for 14 years ought to alert people to the fact that its a charade. They want to give the impression of being “tough” on would be immigrants while simultaneously relying on this same group to maintain a (barely) functioning society.

@TodayInahurry that's incredibly simplistic- plenty of places all over the UK be it south west, midlands, up north are doing perfectly ok and have 'luxury beliefs' (what are these by the way- anyone who doesn't have to shop at Aldi or chooses not to?? I've got several friends in midlands who retired at 55 , pensions kicked in, fully paid up house, seem to go on about 8 holidays abroad a year , and yet literally no one I know in either London or south west is in that position- they might have a fair few holidays but all still have mortgages and are working full time mid 50s.

Nobody’s furious here and it’s not London.

"population crisis" is a really unhelpful term, and people need to stop using it.

What we are experiencing are the many challenges of demographic change.

Some of that demographic change is slow and predictable (the aging population), some is fast and appears to many to be out of control (net migration).

To a significant extent, high net migration is a defense against an aging population. But it doesn't come without challenges. The 1m+ incoming migrants are largely far less well off economically than those emigrating out of the UK. So there's a significant socioeconomic shift. There's also a racial, ethnic and religious shift, and an imbalance in where in the country these new arrivals are trying to create their new lives, compared to where people emigrate from.

Just to add my tuppence worth. My husband works in construction. There's many workers from countries in Eastern Europe who yes, come here to work. They all live together, sometimes 10 to a house, sending all of their money home. Where they are building their own homes so they can leave. They aren't adding anything to the economy here other than working for lower rates then what is affordable for us to live on.

Also, on the social care side. I've applied for numerous jobs in adult social care, all sorts of hours, nights, bank staff, laundry roles. Have not even had a reply from any of them.

Wouldn’t it be more sensible if, like other countries, we let asylum seekers work legally while waiting in out hugely backlogged system. If I was in their shoes I’d be trying to earn to pay for myself too. We don’t need to ask already over-stretch police to intervene, just some common sense from Government would do(rather than rabble rousing and scaremongering as usual).

Really, @Megifer ?

The one reason is immigration? Not the massive loss of skilled human resource from the NHS (partly because of the hostile environment), a decade of system underfunding, a widening gap between rich and poor, an ageing population with inadequate social care for many of the reasons above?

He has charisma which makes his views seem more acceptable than they are. If Labour want to be effective they need a better leader as it’s unbelievable that people aren’t flocking to them given the state of the Tories

@TodayInahurry you don’t speak for those outside London.
Me, my family and friends, ‘up North’ know the benefits of immigration. We also recognise the dangers of popularism and right-wing rhetoric (long family history of family fighting for this country against fascism).
Please don’t insult us by grouping us into your worries.

@BIossomtoes the only time I've ever heard it mentioned here was occasional snatches of conversation from over70s in cafes or pubs and usually they are tourists -

I'm 61 and it has never ever cropped up in conversation with my friends-

Maybe a lot of this depends on the company you keep- I've mainly found it in areas where it really really isn't the major issue but people need to find something to blame their crappy life or circumstances on. So rather than blame the fact the gvt have left the country to rot and were more concerned with Brexit or lining their pockets or keeping their donors sweet and their vote up --- they blame immigrants.

I’m very aware that by posting on this thread I’m helping keep the title “To agree with Nigel Frenchname” in the trending list. So I’ll say au revoir et Bon chance to those standing up for equality, diversity and critical thinking 🙂

@AnnieKayTee rubbish, they are paying tax , buying stuff whilst they are here (I presume they eat etc) and presumably getting things built! Which is a great deal more than many of the British born and bred are doing who are only 'taking' from the economy !!

Do you have any experience in social care etc? I can think of no logical reason you aren't getting interviews- or could it be the gvt have allowed many in on these recent visas and are allowed to pay them 20% less than minimum wage? (I believe that is changing- but it has been the case!!

Bravo @LongDarkTeatime - I hate the rhetoric that thinks anyone who isn't in London thinks exactly the same. The Tory's have relied on this for too long.

The U.K. has no idea how many people are here and how many illegally because we don't accurately record numbers in and out. Thus differs from most other countries in Europe.
We need accurate figures.
Having been opposed to it in the past on libertarian principles, I'm now coming to the view that we need National Identity cards.

@Wolvesart I totally disagree- and have you seen the polls?? What we need is calm, diplomatic, internationally credible, hard working but a total realist and has no obsession with being 'one of the people' - someone who actually reads the Sage reports, and can manage a document more than 2 pages long.

What we do not need is a media circus monkey calling people 'folks' etc

It is not Britains got Talent. Yes some people are always fooled by such figures-see Johnson for details- but that is not in the best interests of the country.

@EvelynBeatrice 100% - we had all sorts in Denmark - it was actually quite handy

Comedycook
Legal net migration is 3/4 million a year currently

In fact - the ONS included 76,000 asylum applicants in their figures for 2022 - included for the first time apparently;

We have included asylum applicants (76,000 for 2022)

Have you seen the polls? Labour’s about 20 points ahead. We had enough “charisma” with Johnson to last a life time.

@Crikeyalmighty not always paying tax, no. Yes they buy stuff obviously. But majority of their wage is being sent back home to their country. Not being spent in ours.
Take one look at any construction job page on Facebook and witness the many British born men desperate for work. I think this is a case of if it isn't directly affecting you then it's not happening.
And yes, I agree, probably take one look at my british name and decide they would have to pay me more. So why hire me, just find someone who they can pay less. So again, directly affecting me and my family.

Populism as Farage espouses gives simple solutions for complex problems.

Housing crisis and NHS in meltdown - reduce immigration.
Low growth, death of manufacturing - leave EU.
Climate change threatening our survival - lefty hippies, ignore it.
Ageing population - things were better in the 70s, leave EU and it might turn the clock back.

I don't believe in open borders and unlimited immigration. I think there should be a strategy to help immigrants be spread more fairly around the country and not all clustered in a few places.

But that's about the details. The way immigration is spoken about in just more or less terms is overly simplified. And it's weaponised to make people think 'they're coming for us' so they get scared and will vote for anyone who will address the perceived threat.

That's just a different way to be racist. He's racist. What does population crisis mean? It's not a population crisis is a fuckwit incompetent govt and Brexit crisis.

Funny how it was Europe and now it's an unnamed population crisis

While he married a German was an MEP but never attended. Ducked out when Brexit happened as he needed his life back.

Now he's back spouting new rubbish. He's seriously mentally ill.

Crikeyalmighty
When we lived in Denmark the Danish system policed hugely the 'workers' aspect and again no right to benefits

Labour's 2019 manifesto (UK) pledged to 'level up' access to benefits and housing for migrants/asylum seekers.

Oh brilliant, I’ve not been reading the news much since losing my Dad a few weeks ago. Agree re Boris - but immune 😂

@AnnieKayTee and that's one reason I don't agree with how some of the building trade operates or the lack of registration in the country that went on for years and years- it simply didn't work like that elsewhere - I think it's as I said below the country caused its own issue with CBA syndrome- causing resentment in certain industries, construction being a main one with its huge use of contractors.

You might lovely find it a bit easier with the new rules as they can't be paid any less than you could be. I worked in a business centre that had a company that was doing a lot of the visa processing -a great many families coming in under the 'carer' radar. My own suspicion is that they will start this and then quickly go off and do something else and not be followed up. Again - a CBA situation.

it’s unbelievable that people aren’t flocking to them given the state of the Tories

It's "unbelievable" because it's utter wank - people are flocking to Labour

Labour 46% (+2 from October) Conservatives 25% (+1) Liberal Democrats 12% (-1) Green Party 6% (-3) Others 10% (-1)