To agree with Nigel Farage?

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I expect to be completely flamed here!

But I find myself agreeing with him. I've been watching TV this morning and have seen him do a couple of interviews following his exit from the jungle.

I voted Remain back in 2016 and have always voted Labour. So in the past I've obviously had very different political views from him m, but everything he said this morning about a population crisis, there being no real leader of the opposition and the Conservative Party being in a complete shambles made sense. I think he does speak a lot of what maybe others would be afraid to say. I honestly feel confused as to why I find myself agreeing with him.

Tell me I'm being unreasonable!

Needing people to work in social care and the aging population is just a huge pyramid scheme. Keep increasing the population and what do you think will happen in fifty years time...more elderly who need care so more immigrants to work in social care and on and on

It might be one of the problems of Brexit - with free movement people were more comfortable to come and work without wanting to move permanently and/or bring their families.

The thing is on some things he has a point and like Johnson says this in such a way you would think he totally knows the score , however I don't think he understands the UK working situation - the fact is Brexit has caused a huge shortage in many industries- I'm not talking about the £45k and more type jobs (with the exception of some medical roles and a few other niche industries) I'm talking everything from plumbing to nursing to retail to hotel workers etc and hence the gvt have allowed large amounts of developing country immigration, mainly families - all rather pointless when we had young for single people here for a few years mainly . What's his solution? I'm pretty sure it would be forcing people to take low paid work by removal of benefits, even tougher criteria on disablement etc- none of this affects the well off of course. This comes from a guy whose own family were well protected, wife was German, kids have EU passports etc- he is mainly interested in Nigel and has a particular ideology that sounds reasonable but really isn't in todays world. That is not to say that I believe immigration is totally the answer- we need to make sure young (and not so young) people get training and don't see a life of being sat on your arse just getting by as something to aspire to. But Farage really isn't the answer as he has an ideology -- but no practical solutions.

This. A million times.

Exactly
He isn’t saying anything he hasn’t already said .
If he came up with something substantial I may give him the benefit of the doubt despite my misgivings.

This

@Lwrenagain I agree with you- because only by understanding why some feel as they do can you get to the bottom of what is turning them towards these very extreme ideologies.- be they left or right

Yes,well but how is he going to sort the migration -everyone in either party, here and abroad thinks migration should be controlled but NOOOOOOOOOOO one knows how.

Can you describe an example of how migration has negatively effected you?

Yes. My dcs reception class ten years ago...at capacity of 30. Halfway through the term goes up to 31 because a child has arrived from Easter Europe and there's no space in primary schools in area. An extra child in a class at capacity isn't enhancing my dcs education. At secondary school age, we didn't get into our nearest school..less than a mile away

But that's not what happened - about 6 million people who came here via free movement have applied for and been granted leave to remain.
Whatever your views on the rights and wrongs of that (and Brexit) it does seem that a significant number of EU migrants were staying.

Low birth rate is a problem, but none of the people talking about it ever seem to propose what is needed to address it - namely making daily life cheaper, affordable childcare, better financial and social support for working and stay at home parents and so on.

They suggest stupid bullshit like giving people a piffling sum of money or a telegram from the King for having a 3rd child!

Where does the figure of 6 million come from?
How does this compare to the pre-Brexit outward FoM migration from UK to EU?(which has now been stopped)

Under EU rules we could have required people to return if they weren't earning a living. It was free movement of WORKERS not people. If you didn't get work within three months or something, the state was not required to support you or pay benefits.

We couldn't be arsed with reforming our benefits system or all the admin involved so we just let people come and claim benefits on the same level as citizens. This attracted more migrants from the poorer EU countries (because why wouldn't you?)

Skilled migrants tend to come and then head back home when it comes to having a family or you just miss home. Because why wouldn't you?

And the flow went the other way too. Many UK citizens took up residence in EU countries.

The difference between 30 and 31 is negligible. And part of the reason schools became hugely oversubscribed was because when the birth rate was falling in the 90s they reduced the number of school places and were very slow to or didn’t bother to increase places back up to where they were.

Like many things, the problem wasn’t the immigration which we needed but lack of government planning for it.

Well, yes but they're what gets press coverage.

Less publicity for non-EU nationals coming over because every country we've done these much-vaunted post-Brexit deals that deliver about as much GDP as a jumble sale have clauses requiring x number of worker visas per year. I don't think many Brexit voters wanted to replace French and Polish workers with Indian or Brazilian ones.

There's pressure on schools in my city and my particular area. It's due to Londoners moving out, gentrification and general population shift. I don't think you can blame immigrants.

30/31...why even have a limit hey?

During the 2000s, the number of immigrants from EE was incredibly high. My dcs class was 15% children from EE. That is not insignificant. Were there any schools in Latvia/Lithuania/Poland etc which had such a high percentage of British kids in them?

Hitler said some sensible things. As did Stalin. And Henry VIII

Not quite sure what the point here is ?

I think you know full well that is not what @BIossomtoes was suggesting. The point that we have massive gaps in our workforce and big groups of people queuing up wanting to work legally is a pretty simple one to understand.

Social care of course isn’t the only gap which is causing huge issues in our economy. We’re lacking many many skills, and have an ageing population to support from a tax perspective which our current birthrate from british nationals cannot sustain.

A vicar moved to our Church and his kids joined the Church school pushing multiple class numbers above 30. Does that mean we should stop movement of clerics too?

Thanks @alkinetyh. You made my point much more clearly.

The key word is skilled workers. And in the case of social care workers (and many other sectors), a background that can be verified.

Undocumented young men with few language or work skills won’t solve the workforce gap. You also may as well ditch border force if an unresolved asylum claim is the threshold for legal work.

But that's not what happened - about 6 million people who came here via free movement have applied for and been granted leave to remain.
Whatever your views on the rights and wrongs of that (and Brexit) it does seem that a significant number of EU migrants were staying

Yes, lots have (although I don’t think 6million applications means that many individuals weirdly according to an article I just read).

I think we would not have known exact numbers before using freedom of movement, so maybe it’s about the same number but just it’s now showing in the stats. and from different countries. Not sure how many outflows to Europe there were in the time free movement was operating however, and the recent immigration numbers are net so it’s not comparing apples with apples.

I don't think he's right and saying what people are "afraid to say".

It's a mix of the bloody obvious (Tory party are a shambles), outright lie (there's no real leader of the opposition - disagree strongly, Corbyn and Starmer and ANY leader of the opposition have to fight an uphill battle against the right-wing leaning media), and deliberately unsubtle takes on rather more nuanced issues (immigration).

I refuse it to frame it as I agree with what he has to say. He, on some obvious issues, come to the same conclusion as anyone with an ounce of common sense.

He's wrong as fuck on everything else mind.

Ridiculous comparison. Are you proposing freedom of movement between the UK and the entire world or do you think immigration needs some form of control?

My sister is a teacher. She says having Eastern European kids in class actually usually improves results because their parents have a much more no-nonsense approach to discipline and homework. Less of the 'how dare you tell off my little angel' mentality. More of a sense of wanting to make the very most of the opportunity to learn and build a life here.

You know very well that not many British people emigrate to Poland, Latvia or Lithuania. Part of the reason is that we left them to Stalin after WWII in a pact that the people of those countries had no real say about. Lots of Poles fought within the British army in WWII then had their country handed over to a Communist dictatorship for their troubles.

Quite a lot of people from former USSR and Soviet bloc countries might have an interesting perpective for you.