To not understand this trend of men waiting until middle age to commit

[Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany]

I've seen on here a few times and irl that early 30s is apparently too young for men to settle down these days and most don't contemplate it until nearer 40?
I just don't understand tbh, 30 is relatively young but they're not 21 year olds.
I'm 32 and recently left a 29 year old who wouldn't commit. My Mum keeps telling me I need someone a lot older, but tbh I don't want anyone significantly older.
Also hearing that most men are ambivalent about having children and do it to keep their partners happy.
Just feel a bit fed up tbh. Obviously it's a massive generalisation but I just don't get it and hope it isn't entirely true

Look, if a man is really smitten, he'll propose. Just don't make him too secure. He'll want to march you down that aisle so nobody else snaps you up while he is dawdling. I I don't think living with somebody for years acting low maintenance means he's particularly inclined to marry you. He doesn't need to.

Hmmm.
My partner got engaged to his ex and had a baby when he was 24. She ended the relationship when he was 27, before they ever got to marrying (don't know if they ever got to thinking of setting a date/planning, i haven't asked as don't think it's my business). They had been together about a year and a half when they got pregnant intentionally.

I've been with him for just over 3 years now, i'm 34 hes 32, but due to health issues on both sides we both cannot work and live with parents and can't afford to move out and in together, whereas he did live with ex. (though his mum regularly asks me if i want to move in, love that woman) I would marry him tomorrow and he knows it, i'd love nothing more than to get engaged, but i appreciate our timeline is moving much slower than with his ex because of health and financial issues meaning we haven't even lived together yet.

I would love to know how he feels about it though, but i don't want to pressure him. he does say things about the future like "when we live together" and did once say "when we're married" so i'm holding hope it is a one day thing, the sooner the better, but as distant as is necessary.

I would think this is a good thing. So many men settle down and have kids because they feel pressured to by their partners, then they're usually crap fathers and husbands and everyone is miserable. End result is the children will suffer either having divorced parents and splitting their time between households, disengaged fathers or fathers that are completely absent. If people are now starting to think about these things properly that can only be a good thing

I think many men are ambivalent about kids. I’m divorced with a DC and my DP is 36. He said he could take it or leave it and that he would if I had wanted another but I don’t.

I have a lot of male friends (we’re all 35-45) and I’d say it’s about 50/50. Those that definitely wanted a child-free life are with women that have chosen the same, though. The only man I know that has really been enthusiastic about wanting children is my DB, who had his first at 37 when his DW was 35.

in my experience when schooling is finished they want a few years to do as they so please with their money and their time. lots of rather extreme sports and extreme holidays (think sky diving and scuba certification and vacay in costa rica). by they time they want to settle with one woman they indeed are nearing 35, they own their own home WHICH becomes a bit of a problem should the marriage be short SO they become a bit scared of committing to the wrong woman.
first thing you know they are 40 have a 25yr old gf who is pregnant expecting their first child ;).

@Ageingisaprivilegedeniedtomany Leaving it until your mid 40s to have your first child is insane. It's highly likely you won't be able to

Thats not at all relevant to men though is it. Most men I know didn’t/don’t get married and have kids until 40 odd. But, at that point their wives were mid-20’s so don’t have the issue of being too old for kids.

I don’t know what’s hard to understand. Because men don’t have this biological restriction, they put head down, tail up and power on to get a good foothold in their career. That takes years, to get to that comfortable position where you can lift your head and breathe. Men get to this point, lift their heads up and then think ‘what next, I know, wife and kids’. It’s not necessarily that they don’t ’settle down’ prior, many do, but they won’t commit because they don’t feel they are at that point in their careers where they can do so. This leads to female partner giving an ultimatum (as she is getting older and has biological restrictions), they break up and a few years later he has proposed to a 25yo and a year later is a dad in early 40’s. Meanwhile the previous partner is generally single and missed the opportunity for kids or partners again and is doing IVF at 40yo.

@Justfinking I just don’t get this being pressured into settling down and have kids part-why agree to it if you don’t want to?

We’re incredibly lucky to live in an era with pretty reliable contraception (plus vasectomies are available) so if you don’t want children, find a partner who feels the same way and don’t have them!

As I said upthread, DH is the only one of his siblings (four total) who’s chosen to have children. I don’t understand why nowadays anyone would intentionally create a family that they don’t want?

I think you must come from a particular demographic though because I don't recognise this among all my friends. (Do you know lots of high-achieving men?). I know lots of people who had their children in their late 20s and early 30s and are similar ages to each other. I don't know anyone who got married at the age of 40 to someone in their 20s, although I do know quite a lot of couples that had their children in their mid to late 30s.

Those men who do marry much younger women do seem to be the controlling types who don't want to have someone who might challenge them too much though. My dad was a bit like that and didn't let my mum have her own bank card despite the fact she worked! They are also often people in high powered jobs who have the kind of lifestyles that will attract a younger woman. It is definitely a thing but I don't think it applies across all demographics.

Depends on the person I think. Many of my male cousins got married in their 20s. It was the norm in their circles, most left school ar 16 and went straight into jobs. Had been working a few years before they got married. I sometimes think people who go down this role grow up quicker if you see what I mean? Those of my cousins that went on to uni didn't get married until late 30s because they graduated then wanted a certain level of security before starting a family.

In contrast my dh went to uni, moved back hone to his parents when he got a job to save. He had an on and off again relationship with his ex which took him some time to get over. He was 33 when we met and I was 25. By that point he was wanting marriage and kids but it was another 2 years before we got married and then another 2 before we had our firstchild. My priority when we met wasn't kids or marriage and I made it clear that I couldn't give him a timeline on when I wanted all that.

I think if you’re already thinking about huge commitments before you’re even actually with this person then it’s likely you’re going to give off those vibes from day 1 which could well push him the other way.

When I decided that I wanted to settle down I was quite up front with men. I decided that I would not be afraid of saying it.

It helped actually in a way. The men who were not ready or interested could be straight with me, and the ones who also felt ready to settle could experiment.

Met dh and married quite quickly - within 6 months. That was 20 years ago now!

I don't know where all this 'men aren't interested in having children' has come from! Of all the relationships I know it's the men who wanted children (probably because it's easier for them to do so without it impacting them physically at least).

True, and that's certainly how men would look at it.

...but many women want children and are enthusiastic about having children, hence the fact mumsnet attracts thousands of women and few men, whereas Pistonheads and Porn sites attract men, but few women.

So we can conclude being free is of far more benefit to men than to women. This thread is started by a woman who doesn't want to be free.

You asked a man if he thought women should typically provide men with hassle free sex without commitment to a LTR and family and he say yes?

You do suprise me.

Also the only bit of the culture we're discussing is the "sex outside marriage component".

I'm pretty sure the cultures where the "price" of sex for men is a LTR and kids have higher birth rates than more enlightened cultures and have more marriages at a younger age.

The fact they may be dire in every other way is irrelevant.

Why is there no discussion about anonymous sperm donation? Women can take control of their fertility and child bearing imperatives WITHOUT need for a man.

Whodathunkit was possible?

I'm a woman in my 30s. I don't find it depressing at all. If I wasn't with DH or didn't have DC I'd still be happy being me and doing a job I love. Earning money, being independent, able to go where I want when I want and not worry about whether some man was bothered (previous boyfriends include a very controlling/borderline abusive one and a very insecure one).

What I have never understood is this NEED to have a man and children, like a woman isn't enough on her own. If we're saying men are mostly ambivalent to it, why can't we be? I was. I love my family to bits and I don't want to give them up, but equally if I'd not found them I know I'd have been OK and happy on my own. And if anything happens to DH I won't be bothered about replacing him. I'm enough.

Yes, we were told we could “have it all”. It took a decade or so for people to realise you’d need a LOT of domestic help to achieve this, otherwise “having it all” really means “doing it all” at the age of 42.

I agree, but we keep on hearing women don't have their own minds and just do whatever men say but yeah if you don't want kids don't have them

That is the perfect solution IMHO.

Women get families, but maintain careers.

Men get the single lifestyle.

True equality.

Think unfortunately the money issue is often what gets in the way of marriage, he owns a house, she doesn’t as is younger and hasn’t yet got to that stage but he won’t marry her because he doesn’t want to risk his wealth, she becomes disillusioned. My ex owned his house and can’t tell you how many problems that caused from the start, I’d actually been much better off as a single mother than ever was with him but it was assumed was with him as he had his own house, (despite quite happy in my rented house) I never felt secure as despite having children together I could be homeless at any time so felt much less secure than if we had been renting together, there was no working towards buying a house together, he did want to get married but the whole him owning a house seemed to be a constant elephant in the room and I didn’t want to marry someone who so clearly felt that way. Basically him having that bit of money poisoned our whole relationship. Even after we split he perceived himself as having done me a huge favour letting me live in his house as an unpaid slave despite the fact I’d lived in a nice house and was getting on just fine before I met him.
When I met my now DH I was so glad he didn’t own his own house or have any wealth as such, he did earn a good salary but was recently divorced and had left the house with ex. It’s been brilliant we bought our house together from scratch and have been married nearly 10 years, have 2 children together, he did earn double my salary when we first me but we earn about the same now.

I don't really see this as a trend in my circles. Among my parent friends, the men seemed as keen on marriage and kids as the women (sometimes much more so) and they all did those things in their mid to late 30s. No significant age gaps with their partners. Many of my child-free friends, men and women, didn't "settle down" til later (or haven't settled down yet) but obviously they didn't need or want to prioritise that at all.

In any case I wouldn't see it as a bad thing at all. It's very reasonable not to want to settle down or commit. I'm child-free and a lifestyle of boring, conventional domesticity doesn't hold much appeal for me or my child-free friends. A lifestyle free of commitment and responsibility is much more enjoyable thanks, you can keep your family time! I'm not sure why anyone, male or female, who decides they don't want to settle down, or only want it in a timeframe that suits them, is to be criticised. If your particular partner isn't on the same page as you on that front, it's up to you and only you to find someone compatible - not to railroad him into something he doesn't want.

The slut-shaming on this thread is surreal and bonkers, but it does bolster my theory that a certain strain of anti-sex thought prevalent on MN under the guise of "feminism" ends up being identical to fundamentalist religious oppression. I'm also not sure - as a woman who has enjoyed a lot of casual sex - why, if my wanton behaviour has indeed made men reluctant to settle down, that's even my problem.

Really? You think 70% of men wouldn’t even make a DECENT life partner? If you seriously think that then I think the problem lies with you.

Before suggesting my post is ignored, maybe you can have another read of it because what I suggested is exactly finding out what the person’s values are not proposing to Dave 5 minutes after meeting them.
if you ask someone early on what their view on marriage and they say they will never get married vs “I would get married to the right person” you can make an informed decision about whether to take it to the next date rather than spend years dating someone just to find out that they never envisioned the same relationship as you.

Oh Lord. How ridiculous on so many counts.

Why do you equate marriage with commitment? These are two separate concepts. If you look closely at threads on MN, you will see plenty of evidence of marriage without commitment. And I can assure you that there are men who are committed without being married.
That piece of paper only guarantees your legal status, not the level of commitment.