Page 17 | Friend asking for loan. Knows I can 'afford it'. Went about it all wrong.

edelweissnights · 2023-12-08T23:20:42+00:00

A friend called me up and asked me for a loan... after about an hour of chit-chat (which was largely regarding my grief as I have recently lost someone). It wasn't so much a loan, but a desperate plea to pay his mortgage and kids' school fees. He is starting his own business (after jacking in a £120k + London city job) and basically said he needed the money.... yesterday. Since someone very close to me (family) passed, I've been getting a few of these calls from 'friends', albeit not people who were my friends - but my relative's friend. He knows I'm 'good for it' as it is somewhat obvious/is 'public' (if you search for it). I wish he hadn't spent an hour asking about 'the estate' (which is now the name instead of my relative's actual name) as it seems he was just fishing for intel. Also, to call someone up and put them on the spot is just mad. I have a long term partner, but no children and he kept saying how 'lucky' I was to not have the life he does as children are expensive etc... but to be honest, I do not feel lucky after the year I've had and the things I have been through. Of course children are expensive. I understand that - and respect that. I am not even sure I would get the money back but he assured me I would within a few weeks. It's not a number to smirk at either. The way he went about it was so so wrong though. He said: "If only I knew someone who would lend me the money... oh wait..! You're childfree! Lucky you! You must have lots of disposable income!!" (Even inheritance aside, I wouldn't have 'loads' of disposable income and the number still remains slightly eye-watering). It was the fact that he kept repeating: "If only I had a way to get the money...." He sounded desperate, but I hate how horrible he made me feel and how badly he went about everything. AIBU to say no - even without giving a reason?

AliceOlive · 09/12/2023 17:37

How very Harold Skimpole like.

When he said “if only I knew someone…” I’d love to say “How on earth would someone else’s money help? Surely you couldn’t ask them to fund you after you quit your high paying job?

Original poster

edelweissnights · 09/12/2023 17:42

PamelasSpamela · 09/12/2023 17:32

That’s good. As I said earlier, I just don’t think it’s good for you to ‘see how low he would go’ (apologies if they are not quite the words your friend used) as it is only you who could get hurt. He’s a total wanker. He’ll realise soon enough that he is blocked, but don’t out it past him to try and engage you in other ways. If he turns up at your door, just it in his face.

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Agreed. Also, if he wanted to apologise, I'd hope he'd message me something about wanting to apologise - prior to calling multiple times. Me simply answering just puts me at risk of not knowing what would be coming next - and I suspect it wouldn't be an apology.

As another poster rightly said, there's nothing in messages as yet that show he's asked for a loan. There's no record of anything about money in the messages. So even if I did ever 'loan' him the money (which I didn't/wouldn't), it would ideally (ideally for him that is) all be done over phone calls, so if it were to go south, I'd be screwed. The only messages I have are along the lines of 'call me back ASAP'.

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YorkshireLandlady · 09/12/2023 17:45

Many years ago I lent a very dear friend & his wife 5k as a bridging loan in-between mortgages, all legally drawn up etc & promised to pay me back within 6 months.
Took 4 years to get it back, probs spent much of it in fees.
We've hardly spoken since. Never again.

Original poster

edelweissnights · 09/12/2023 17:46

PamelasSpamela · 09/12/2023 17:32

That’s good. As I said earlier, I just don’t think it’s good for you to ‘see how low he would go’ (apologies if they are not quite the words your friend used) as it is only you who could get hurt. He’s a total wanker. He’ll realise soon enough that he is blocked, but don’t out it past him to try and engage you in other ways. If he turns up at your door, just it in his face.

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Another thing about blocking means is that it firmly tells him that I'm not an option RE: money. It's the virtual equivalent of a door slam. So if he is truly desperate, he will have to find another option/explore other avenues. It frees him of thinking/hoping I am still an option.

Bear in mind, I had already said no last night! So it's not like I went MIA and left him hanging today. Any pushback after someone has already said 'no' is just not on.

OP posts:

Bigcat25 · 09/12/2023 17:50

Singleorigincoffee · 09/12/2023 17:20

I think you need to listen to Dave Ramsey lol

Say no!

He problematic, but op's 'friend' should call into the show.

EmmaEmerald · 09/12/2023 17:52

I hope you don't hear from him again but I'd gird yourself for a message from a different number, with a sob story in it.

Original poster

edelweissnights · 09/12/2023 18:01

YorkshireLandlady · 09/12/2023 17:45

Many years ago I lent a very dear friend & his wife 5k as a bridging loan in-between mortgages, all legally drawn up etc & promised to pay me back within 6 months.
Took 4 years to get it back, probs spent much of it in fees.
We've hardly spoken since. Never again.

Isn't it just awful? There's a stream of similar experiences on this thread. Things like this ruin relationships/friendships etc... and it seems as though people who pay do back loans (in timely fashion) really are the exception to the rule.

OP posts:

captainmarvella · 09/12/2023 18:08

OVienna · 09/12/2023 17:18

You could text: "I'm afraid I'm tied up with DP today and can't speak. Sorry I can't help, and I understand you may now feel embarrassed for asking which I'm guessing is the reason for all the calls? Listen - no harm done and you're not the only one to ask either - I do have to protect myself from any more of these requests now though. Take care."

This is a good message to send, esp the bit about how others have been asking OP money too. Tells the CF that he has been made.

Merryoldgoat · 09/12/2023 18:12

@edelweissnights

I’ve only read your posts OP so not sure if your hardship fund question has been answered.

I assess these applications as part of my job.

First port of call is a monthly instalment plan which assists if paying from income.

We use a third party to do a full financial assessment and the following would exclude eligibility:

Savings beyond a £5k rainy day fund
Second property
A stay at home parent without significant caring responsibilities
Significant equity in the home that could be called on.

The number of people with significant assets that approach me is shocking.

Additionally the support would not be open ended. Either until the end of the school year or sooner if finances picked up.

The other factor would be the stage the children are at. More flexibility if child is about to take GCSEs or A-Level. Am assuming senior given the cost of those fees.

Sharontheodopolodous · 09/12/2023 18:19

This reminds me if dps ex wife

She spent money like it was water-it burnt holes in her pockets if she had it

Dps mum came into a small amount of money,and ex wife found out and actually demanded some of it as 'your loaded' (his mum isnt) and 'I need 10k for your granddaughters-ill pay it back out of dps salary at x a month'

His mum coughed up in sheer fear that she'd never see her grandchildren again

Dp didn't know a thing about it until they broke up

it turned out ex wife had rinsed his mum for a lot more over the years,claiming that the dds would stave if his mum didn't cough up

She never paid a penny back

She left dp with thousands in debts when they broke up while she is still running them up 9 years later-by rinsing people she knows

(she thinks it's funny to ring up company's and will tell them that she'll kill herself if the chase her for debts owed-they tend to wipe a lot off-ive heard her bragging about it)

His mum is the most lovely lady in the world and didn't deserve to be conned like that

Do not lend a penny-itll disappear into the black hole

Plus it's not your job to pay for his kids or his lifestyle

Original poster

edelweissnights · 09/12/2023 18:21

Merryoldgoat · 09/12/2023 18:12

@edelweissnights

I’ve only read your posts OP so not sure if your hardship fund question has been answered.

I assess these applications as part of my job.

First port of call is a monthly instalment plan which assists if paying from income.

We use a third party to do a full financial assessment and the following would exclude eligibility:

Savings beyond a £5k rainy day fund
Second property
A stay at home parent without significant caring responsibilities
Significant equity in the home that could be called on.

The number of people with significant assets that approach me is shocking.

Additionally the support would not be open ended. Either until the end of the school year or sooner if finances picked up.

The other factor would be the stage the children are at. More flexibility if child is about to take GCSEs or A-Level. Am assuming senior given the cost of those fees.

Oh wow. Thank you so much for your post. I was curious as to what it was/how it worked - not because I was trying to help him with that/offer endless suggestions - but more because I had never heard such a thing. (I do not have children).

Regardless, he would not qualify!

Is it that people think they are 'poor' but actually aren't (in the eyes of most)? Is it quite difficult to filter out who qualifies based on the variables? I can imagine most applicants would think they qualify, but actually don't.

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Merryoldgoat · 09/12/2023 18:34

@edelweissnights

It’s tricky and a balance needs to be achieved but there is often a lack of recognition that private education is a choice.

There are lots of families for whom it is stretch to afford the fees, but the reality is that minus school fees they’d have zero financial issues. So when they do stretch themselves there’s no room for the £2k cricket tour, or football in Holland, or PGL in Spain. And they feel like they should have help because they’re finding it hard, but it’s all of their own making.

A parent approached me because they had less coming in because she had dropped to part-time. They had a 6 bed family home (2 children) and three investment properties. That they could even consider asking was beyond me.

Selling ONE of the properties would’ve paid ALL the school fees for both children through to A-Level.

PomsRun · 09/12/2023 18:44

I hope you don’t feel too upset - just just so awful to think a friend would do this. I guess he wasn’t really a good friend.

Bigcat25 · 09/12/2023 18:47

Tellmesomethingidontknow · 09/12/2023 14:50

This thread has struck a chord . I lost my husband and very young child in an accident . My only brother tried to get a very large amount of money from me when he thought the estate was finalised ( it wasn't). I said no and surprise , I never heard from him again . Its been years now but yes , money brings out the absolute worst in people .

So extremely sorry for your loss, and your brother's behavior. So very heartbreaking.

Bigcat25 · 09/12/2023 18:51

Merryoldgoat · 09/12/2023 18:34

@edelweissnights

It’s tricky and a balance needs to be achieved but there is often a lack of recognition that private education is a choice.

There are lots of families for whom it is stretch to afford the fees, but the reality is that minus school fees they’d have zero financial issues. So when they do stretch themselves there’s no room for the £2k cricket tour, or football in Holland, or PGL in Spain. And they feel like they should have help because they’re finding it hard, but it’s all of their own making.

A parent approached me because they had less coming in because she had dropped to part-time. They had a 6 bed family home (2 children) and three investment properties. That they could even consider asking was beyond me.

Selling ONE of the properties would’ve paid ALL the school fees for both children through to A-Level.

How ridiculous of her, as if going part time wasn't her choice. I'm in Canada, and while there's multiple private schools in my city, they aren't so common, and never would be seen as mandatory unless under very special circumstances.

lto2019 · 09/12/2023 19:14

Aside from the crass way he went about it - and not considering your grief - it would be a no from me anyway. He left a high salaried job and he knew when he did that he still had his mortgage and school fees to pay. Setting up a business - he should have factored these things in - if he didn't how does he think he will pay the following months fees. There are other options he could explore.

I would say - I am not to willing to pay your mortgage or school fees. I found it very upsetting that you have contacted me when I am grieving and I find your approach completely crass and unwelcome.

OVienna · 09/12/2023 19:14

captainmarvella · 09/12/2023 18:08

This is a good message to send, esp the bit about how others have been asking OP money too. Tells the CF that he has been made.

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Gets it in writing what he was up to as well - I'd mention loan specifically, on reflection though. Who could possibly argue with it? Might prevent any bad mouthing going round too if that is a concern.

WhiteRabbitBlackCat · 09/12/2023 19:47

I was feeling smug reading this thread, because a few years after uni I borrowed thousands of pounds from a friend to live overseas for a year, and at the end of that year I turned down the chance to stay (which would have meant incurring more debt, though not from my friend), and instead I went back home and worked boring jobs and paid him back every penny before going off gallivanting in foreign parts again. I am clearly an honourable person!

But then, I occasionally take advantage of errors at the self-scan machines, so according to that other thread I am a common thief and the lowest of the low.

Anyway, I'm glad OP will not be lending any money to this guy. The horror stories on this thread seem to indicate that if you are going to lend, it's essential to have an agreement in writing, even informal (though formal would be better for larger sums - payback terms in particular). Anyone who legitimately needs a loan and intends to pay it back won't object to having everything set out in writing and agreed to by both parties, if not their solicitors.

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 20:16

Bear in mind, I had already said no last night! So it's not like I went MIA and left him hanging today. Any pushback after someone has already said 'no' is just not on.

Sorry to hear these updates. It’s very disappointing. I had really hoped your friend would have at least some shame and pride left, and not try and talk you out of your decision. The fact he isn’t accepting a NO is further evidence of how entitled he thinks he is to your money. Absolutely disgusting behaviour, he put himself in this situation by quitting his job and he’s trying to make you pay for his lifestyle choices & business dreams.

I’d probably be really petty and send a text with something like “ I know you probably feel terrible about asking me for money while I’m grieving - we all do stupid things sometimes. Let’s just forget about it .”

This is not advisable btw but I’m petty like that 😄 seriously though, blocking him is the best thing. He has shown no respect for your boundaries and his behaviour could escalate. As you say, he can always email if he wants to apologise.

GladioliandSweetPeas · 09/12/2023 21:21

@edelweissnights We had people offering 'their contact information' in case we needed to contact them. They were thinking they were in for a nice sum - and they weren't even family. We also had people 'checking in' and 'offering help with the will'. A few weeks later people would 'check in' and ask if we 'needed them'.

To be fair, the people you're referring to in this particular quote ⬆️ could've been genuinely saying "let us know if you need anything" and honestly offering you support. I think it's unfair and quite odd for you to immediately jump to them ALL being after money or hoping to be named in the will.

GladioliandSweetPeas · 09/12/2023 21:23

@edelweissnights The school fees for Spring term is £12,180 per child.

Jesus Christ £12,180 is more than my yearly income as a single (widowed) mother 🙁

Original poster

edelweissnights · 09/12/2023 21:50

GladioliandSweetPeas · 09/12/2023 21:21

@edelweissnights We had people offering 'their contact information' in case we needed to contact them. They were thinking they were in for a nice sum - and they weren't even family. We also had people 'checking in' and 'offering help with the will'. A few weeks later people would 'check in' and ask if we 'needed them'.

To be fair, the people you're referring to in this particular quote ⬆️ could've been genuinely saying "let us know if you need anything" and honestly offering you support. I think it's unfair and quite odd for you to immediately jump to them ALL being after money or hoping to be named in the will.

The people I am referring to sadly all were indeed after the money/hoping they'd be named as a beneficiary.

Of course; many others genuinely wanted to help/brought food/asked about how we were doing etc... but the ones who specifically were wanting to pass on their information (funnily enough only to the executors) were indeed looking for a payday as their correspondence was only regarding to the will/estate and in the context of needing them in that regard. Once they knew they weren't named, we never heard from them again, whereas the people who truly cared stuck around.

I wanted to be wrong about those I'm referring to, but I wasn't sadly.

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Original poster

edelweissnights · 09/12/2023 21:52

Biscofffans · 09/12/2023 20:16

Bear in mind, I had already said no last night! So it's not like I went MIA and left him hanging today. Any pushback after someone has already said 'no' is just not on.

Sorry to hear these updates. It’s very disappointing. I had really hoped your friend would have at least some shame and pride left, and not try and talk you out of your decision. The fact he isn’t accepting a NO is further evidence of how entitled he thinks he is to your money. Absolutely disgusting behaviour, he put himself in this situation by quitting his job and he’s trying to make you pay for his lifestyle choices & business dreams.

I’d probably be really petty and send a text with something like “ I know you probably feel terrible about asking me for money while I’m grieving - we all do stupid things sometimes. Let’s just forget about it .”

This is not advisable btw but I’m petty like that 😄 seriously though, blocking him is the best thing. He has shown no respect for your boundaries and his behaviour could escalate. As you say, he can always email if he wants to apologise.

Ha! I did contemplate being petty! I left it and blocked him though so as to not engage. Since he will apparently be back on track in a mere few weeks (according to him) I trust he will be ok.

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Italiangreyhound · 09/12/2023 23:01

@Tellmesomethingidontknow I am so sorry to hear what happened to you.

Fraaahnces · 10/12/2023 01:29

I’m glad he’s blocked @edelweissnights. FOUR messages??? AFTER you’d said no!!! I wonder what he would have hit you with? Guilt trips? Aggression? Offers of legally-enforceable contracts??? (Ha! That would work only if he had income). He needs to change his lifestyle and sort his shit out!!!