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Original poster

The existence of Father Christmas is a lie that children shouldn’t be told

400 replies

maybein2022 · 08/12/2023 20:20

I’ve noticed on social media recently that a LOT of people are posting about not allowing their children to believe in Father Christmas. The rationale being they don’t lie to their children about other things, and it doesn’t sit comfortably with them to create this big ‘lie’. Some talk about how St Nicholas was a real person, some talk about how other children believe in the magic so they shouldn’t spoil it for them etc.

My eldest two are way past believing but it never occurred to me that it was anything more than a harmless story/magic that they would grow out of believing. But I now have a baby/toddler too (too young to understand this year) and wondering if we do the whole thing again.

We’ve always done stockings from FC as small, inexpensive gifts, and always done bigger under the tree gifts from us. A lot of the issue comes with of course not all children will get any gifts at all, and therefore it’s awful if they believe in FC and are disappointed or think they’ve been ‘bad’ (kids living in poverty with no parental money to buy anything, kids living with domestic violence etc). Also the idea that FC brings some kids big gifts and some just small.

So: (I am still on the fence anyway about it all)

YANBU: It’s fine, FC is a magical thing that it’s fine for kids to believe in.
YABU: A lie is a lie, kids shouldn’t believe in FC.

OP posts:
Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:18

I am 100 percent certain that every single parent on this forum has lied to their child at some point.

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 22:19

Nepmarthiturn · 08/12/2023 22:17

Yes, far worse to indoctrincate a child into believing in an invisible entity who allegedly is watching them at all times throughout life and judging and that if you don't follow their somewhat arbitrary and in many cases pretty offensive rules they will burn you in fire for all eternity! I'm sure that's much less disturbing and damaging for a child than some make believe in early childhood about an imaginary figure giving them some presents once per year. 🤣

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The ultimate Elf on the shelf.

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 22:19

Mrsmch123 · 08/12/2023 22:12

So you don't do tooth fairy, Easter bunny?never said they can't have a sweet because there's none left when there is loads in the cupboard?never said that something is broken when you know it's not?I genuinely struggle believe that.

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I have not lied to my children, not about anything. I have kept answers truthful, but age appropriate.

Santa is a gateway big lie to more and more lying isn’t it? If you can go to immense effort to keep a big lie going for years and years, what’s a little lie now and then tossed out to make your daily life easier?

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:20

Our elf isn’t there to control behaviour, but to bring joy. He always shows up with something fun regardless of behaviour so I’m not sure why people are saying otherwise. Maybe that’s the case for some but not in our house.

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 22:21

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:18

I am 100 percent certain that every single parent on this forum has lied to their child at some point.

I agree.

LongLostTeacher · 08/12/2023 22:21

I’m not going to vote, because I think YABU, we shouldn’t lie to our children, but it’s too late, I already did it and I’m stuck with it for now. I also did the bloody elves and that’s maybe even worse.

I wish I had really thought about it before I started it.

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:21

@BabaBarrio I don’t believe you.

Justfinking · 08/12/2023 22:22

Nepmarthiturn · 08/12/2023 22:17

Yes, far worse to indoctrincate a child into believing in an invisible entity who allegedly is watching them at all times throughout life and judging and that if you don't follow their somewhat arbitrary and in many cases pretty offensive rules they will burn you in fire for all eternity! I'm sure that's much less disturbing and damaging for a child than some make believe in early childhood about an imaginary figure giving them some presents once per year. 🤣

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Well said. Any religious people on here saying that they shouldn't lie about Santa are the ultimate hypercrities

Mrsmch123 · 08/12/2023 22:22

@BabaBarrio i don't believe that. Not a chance have you never told a lie to your child.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:23

I am 100 percent certain that every single parent on this forum has lied to their child at some point.

@Elfnsafetyhat pretty sure I havent. My line in the sand is that I want my child to trust me completely and lying doesn’t help with that. The closest I’ve probably come is saying ‘I don’t know’ if they’ve asked me something where the explanation might be a bit too grown up.

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 08/12/2023 22:24

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:14

Plus, I’ve lied to her since she was a toddler about various things - time, something broken, something closed, lots of things

fucking hell. You’re okay with this @StarDolphins?

When the cat gets run over and a neighbour kindly shovels up the remains for binning, I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world to lie to small children about the details.

gannett · 08/12/2023 22:24

Maybe this is just a child-free perspective but it just doesn't matter either way.

The lie doesn't matter. It's a cultural myth. Parents tell white lies to kids all the time. Their faith in human honesty will not be destroyed once they realise.

On the other hand it doesn't matter if the child doesn't believe or isn't told (I never believed). There's plenty of magic in the actual real world that kids are enraptured by so it's not like their childhood will be joyless and soulless without Santa. It really is not the end of the world when they find out.

LBFseBrom · 08/12/2023 22:25

NotEvenThought · 08/12/2023 20:35

My kids never believed Santa was real but they loved to pretend in the same way they loved to play other make believe games. It didnt cross my mind to try to get them to genuinely believe Santa was real. They all loved Christmas. Their Christmases were in no way any less 'magical' than any other kids. Maybe it was because they were more into role play and imaginary play than some of their friends.

That sounds about right to me. I certainly never said Santa was a real person, he was just part of a fun story.

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:25

@BabaBarrio then you have lied haven’t you? Yes and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

As parents it’s our job to bring joy and wonder to children in all the ways we can and sometimes tell lies to protect them when they are young or offer reassurance.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:26

Plus, I’ve lied to her since she was a toddler about various things - time, something broken, something closed, lots of things

fucking hell. You’re okay with this @StarDolphins?

Yes, obviously as I wrote it!

ok. I’m sorry you feel unequipped to deal with her without lying. Parenting is hard undoubtedly

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:27

@Baublewarble are you for real?! 🤣

cakeorwine · 08/12/2023 22:27

Children are very much indoctrinated into Santa from a young age. They learn about the concept of Christmas and learn from other children, images, TV adverts, the media and just from the run up to Christmas about this mysterious person in red with a white beard who lives somewhere cold, has elves in a factory who make presents and then has magical reindeer who can fly and he then brings presents to lots of houses across the world on Christmas Eve.

He also has a tendency to spend December appearing at various events. And has now co-opted elves to check up on behaviour.

It starts young as a "fact" that is presented to children and reinforced by society very strongly.

It's hard to go against that "fact". For lots of reasons.

JudgeJ · 08/12/2023 22:27

carddino · 08/12/2023 20:24

I love the magic of Christmas, looking up to the sky and hoping for a miracle.

I think for me the magic is about kindness, be it Santa Claus showing that in a magic way or teaching children kindness, I'm whatever way you can.

I've tried very hard to do that with my children, and whilst I don't always get it right I think that if we can spread that magic a little and help someone who needs it then that can only be a good thing.

One abiding memory is of our grandchildren being so excited around 6pm on Christmas Eve to see FC's sleigh in the sky, ISS in reality. I think some people forget that a 4 year old doesn't analyse in minute detail, they enjoy and believe, the magic goes all too soon. I doubt any child has been damaged by this little bit of makebelieve

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:27

When the cat gets run over and a neighbour kindly shovels up the remains for binning, I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world to lie to small children about the details.

Weird example of something you’d need to lie about. Genuinely don’t get it. You don’t have to go into gory details sure, but lying? What do you say?

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 22:28

Nepmarthiturn · 08/12/2023 22:17

Yes, far worse to indoctrincate a child into believing in an invisible entity who allegedly is watching them at all times throughout life and judging and that if you don't follow their somewhat arbitrary and in many cases pretty offensive rules they will burn you in fire for all eternity! I'm sure that's much less disturbing and damaging for a child than some make believe in early childhood about an imaginary figure giving them some presents once per year. 🤣

Show quote history

So now we are conflating Santa with religion? Santa is for the secular atheist who decides to have a fake religion for their child so they can laugh at the child as a proxy for all the religious adults they cannot laugh at in public? 🤣

Mrsmch123 · 08/12/2023 22:29

@Baublewarble so you have never told your child the shop is closed when it's open?you don't know where that reallyyyyyyyy annoying toy is when you do?nah I don't believe it.

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 22:29

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:25

@BabaBarrio then you have lied haven’t you? Yes and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

As parents it’s our job to bring joy and wonder to children in all the ways we can and sometimes tell lies to protect them when they are young or offer reassurance.

No, I have not lied to my children. Truthful answers that are age appropriate are not lies.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:29

@Baublewarble are you for real?! 🤣

Sure am. What are you questioning though? Hard to tell with a one liner like this

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 22:29

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:23

I am 100 percent certain that every single parent on this forum has lied to their child at some point.

@Elfnsafetyhat pretty sure I havent. My line in the sand is that I want my child to trust me completely and lying doesn’t help with that. The closest I’ve probably come is saying ‘I don’t know’ if they’ve asked me something where the explanation might be a bit too grown up.

You have lied then. You’re saying you don’t know when you do but just don’t want to say! How can they trust you if you’re not being honest?

Calmdown14 · 08/12/2023 22:29

We don't go Santa crazy but I do absolutely love how special it makes it.

Christmas morning is different to birthday mornings so it is about something more than gifts

I like the kindness comparisons.

I just don't specify too much. All the presents go in a pile and they will know something came from grandma or perhaps a particular item from us but I leave the rest of it open.

They know writing a Christmas list is to give Santa ideas about what type of thing they like and not a list of demands - and that you don't get everything on it or ask for too much.

Just set some parameters early. Similarly for kids that get crazy amounts we just say 'oh maybe their family topped it up as there's only so much he can carry '.

While I know lots of families struggle, I've failed to give away decent second hand toys on our local FB pages this week- and I mean things like boxed k'nex that could be easily wrapped. My kids have always had bits of second hand, especially when they were small and have never questioned lack of boxes