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AIBU?

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Original poster

The existence of Father Christmas is a lie that children shouldn’t be told

400 replies

maybein2022 · 08/12/2023 20:20

I’ve noticed on social media recently that a LOT of people are posting about not allowing their children to believe in Father Christmas. The rationale being they don’t lie to their children about other things, and it doesn’t sit comfortably with them to create this big ‘lie’. Some talk about how St Nicholas was a real person, some talk about how other children believe in the magic so they shouldn’t spoil it for them etc.

My eldest two are way past believing but it never occurred to me that it was anything more than a harmless story/magic that they would grow out of believing. But I now have a baby/toddler too (too young to understand this year) and wondering if we do the whole thing again.

We’ve always done stockings from FC as small, inexpensive gifts, and always done bigger under the tree gifts from us. A lot of the issue comes with of course not all children will get any gifts at all, and therefore it’s awful if they believe in FC and are disappointed or think they’ve been ‘bad’ (kids living in poverty with no parental money to buy anything, kids living with domestic violence etc). Also the idea that FC brings some kids big gifts and some just small.

So: (I am still on the fence anyway about it all)

YANBU: It’s fine, FC is a magical thing that it’s fine for kids to believe in.
YABU: A lie is a lie, kids shouldn’t believe in FC.

OP posts:
WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 08/12/2023 22:29

gannett · 08/12/2023 22:24

Maybe this is just a child-free perspective but it just doesn't matter either way.

The lie doesn't matter. It's a cultural myth. Parents tell white lies to kids all the time. Their faith in human honesty will not be destroyed once they realise.

On the other hand it doesn't matter if the child doesn't believe or isn't told (I never believed). There's plenty of magic in the actual real world that kids are enraptured by so it's not like their childhood will be joyless and soulless without Santa. It really is not the end of the world when they find out.

Yes.

TBH I’m always really surprised to hear that older children still believe in Father Christmas. I’ve never known any child that hadn’t twigged by primary school. And I’ve never known any child that cared.

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 22:30

Mrsmch123 · 08/12/2023 22:22

@BabaBarrio i don't believe that. Not a chance have you never told a lie to your child.

Believe what you like, I’m sure thinking everyone lies to their children and that makes Santa ok helps you sleep better at night.

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:30

@Baublewarble so you have never told your child the shop is closed when it's open?you don't know where that reallyyyyyyyy annoying toy is when you do?nah I don't believe it.

no! I’d just say, no we’re not going to the shop. It’s not hard! I really don’t get this showing off about lying to the people who trust you most in the world. You are their foundation for life.

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 22:32

We didn’t celebrate Christmas when I was a child (not Christian) so I never got to do the Santa thing. Taking my 1 year old to meet Santa tomorrow for a bit of fun but I’m still on the fence about whether I will start doing the Santa thing or not when he’s older.

My perspective as an outsider: I was always a bit jealous of people whose families celebrated Christmas because of the magic and when you’re older you get to realise all of that magic was your mum. Which is somehow better?

It also reminds me of the Friends episode about how Christmas is so much more enticing than Chanukah lol. On Chanukah we used to get a small present on each day from our relatives, nothing special, just a little token… so the way our friends’ parents used to bankrupt themselves every year buying thousands of presents and not even taking credit for it was like… wow lol

Nepmarthiturn · 08/12/2023 22:33

The ultimate Elf on the shelf.

Yes! I find that idea sooooo creepy and weird, in just the same way. I've never tried to convince my children they are being watched or judged on whether they are "good" or "bad" by an elf or a "God" or any other made up entity.

They do enjoy putting out their stockings and finding them filled with presents though. This is showing them kindness and love and is harmless make believe, in stark contrast to the messed up, prejudiced, discriminatory, violent and vengeful edicts of all major world religions which many people indoctrinate their children to be literally true!!

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 22:34

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:26

Plus, I’ve lied to her since she was a toddler about various things - time, something broken, something closed, lots of things

fucking hell. You’re okay with this @StarDolphins?

Yes, obviously as I wrote it!

ok. I’m sorry you feel unequipped to deal with her without lying. Parenting is hard undoubtedly

No need to feel sorry. I am confident & comfortable that some of my heinous lies at 3-5 years old are actually for the best. Instead of lying & saying ‘I don’t know’, I tell a white lie that won’t be shocking or upsetting to a little girl.

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:35

@BabaBarrio its not truthful to say you don’t know when in actual fact you do know , is it? That’s a lie regardless of whether it’s ’age appropriate’ 🤣

I would suggest that the fact you’ve admitted lying to your child so quickly, is a sign that this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you think back, you’ll probably identify many other instances!

handholdneededx · 08/12/2023 22:35

StressedOutSemolina · 08/12/2023 20:48

How utterly fucking depressing. It's Father Christmas! It's just a happy joyful thing

Totally agree!!

allmyliesaretrue · 08/12/2023 22:36

This attitude really fucking pisses me off! Let kids have the fun!

My kids loved the magic and the excitement of it all and never ever thought that they were being fed a lie - it made for so much fun and anticipation, same as it did for me and my siblings back in the day!

Sick of bloody killjoys!! Children that young don't compare themselves to children other than their immediate peers - and even so, not that many of them do.

God would people stop being so fucking PC!

Tiny2018 · 08/12/2023 22:36

My kids are 17 and 12, both are obviously aware that Santa Clause isn't real but play along anyway because why not? A bit of magic in this world does nobody any harm x

LolaSmiles · 08/12/2023 22:36

so you have never told your child the shop is closed when it's open?you don't know where that reallyyyyyyyy annoying toy is when you do?nah I don't believe it.
Not the person you're replying to, but I don't do those things.
I tell them we aren't going to the shop. If they're disappointed then that's ok. It's a normal feeling. Why would I want to lie to them about the shop being closed to avoid being the bad guy or to avoid having to support them through normal emotions?

Children learn by watching us. No parent is perfect obviously, but I don't believe in lying to my children to make my life easier.

WillowCraft · 08/12/2023 22:36

OhBeAFineGuyKissMe · 08/12/2023 20:39

The only thing I don’t like is the whole ‘naughty/ nice ‘ list. There are children who will not get anything (or very little) at Christmas, whether through financial hardship, ill health, neglect or deliberate abuse.

They then believe it was because they are naughty! Somehow not deserving of Father Christmas’s magic.

It always leaves me feeling very sad.

Children who don't get any presents at Christmas because their parents don't love them (which is the alternative explanation if you don't believe in Santa) are no better off though, are they.

I don't believe any parent is so poor that they can't manage a couple of quid in a charity shop and a bit of chocolate once a year.

Also you telling your children Santa isn't real has no bearing on the neglected child you don't even know. This logic is just virtue signalling. If you really care about disadvantaged children then there are lots charities you can donaye to that could actually help some of them.(also don't vote Tory)

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 22:37

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:35

@BabaBarrio its not truthful to say you don’t know when in actual fact you do know , is it? That’s a lie regardless of whether it’s ’age appropriate’ 🤣

I would suggest that the fact you’ve admitted lying to your child so quickly, is a sign that this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you think back, you’ll probably identify many other instances!

I have only told my children that I don’t know when I don’t know and that is the truth. You are confusing me with someone else. I haven’t admitted to lying at all.

Mrsmch123 · 08/12/2023 22:37

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:30

@Baublewarble so you have never told your child the shop is closed when it's open?you don't know where that reallyyyyyyyy annoying toy is when you do?nah I don't believe it.

no! I’d just say, no we’re not going to the shop. It’s not hard! I really don’t get this showing off about lying to the people who trust you most in the world. You are their foundation for life.

But you said up thread you say I don't know when that is a lie.
honestly never broke my trust with my parents when I found out Santa wasn't real.
it's not showing off it's just life and shoot me now sometimes I tell a lie to make my life a little bit easier. Is he going to have trust issues as a grown man because his mum told him she couldn't find that reallyyyyy annoying toy when i knew where it was all along....nope!

Annon1234 · 08/12/2023 22:37

I honestly can’t think of a time I’ve had that excited feeling of anticipation of Santa coming on Christmas, I couldn’t sleep, we’d listen out for him and for me it’s not a feeling that can be matched. Of corse I was disappointed to find out he wasn’t real but it hasn’t traumatised me I think of all those Christmas of when I did believe and how magical they were and am so grateful for my parents for making it such a magical time. Now I have my own child we still do the same thing she believes in Santa and he brings all the presents but we do tell her that we send the money for things on her list so she knows, or will understand more when she’s older it’s not a never ending pit of presents she will receive

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 22:40

LolaSmiles · 08/12/2023 22:36

so you have never told your child the shop is closed when it's open?you don't know where that reallyyyyyyyy annoying toy is when you do?nah I don't believe it.
Not the person you're replying to, but I don't do those things.
I tell them we aren't going to the shop. If they're disappointed then that's ok. It's a normal feeling. Why would I want to lie to them about the shop being closed to avoid being the bad guy or to avoid having to support them through normal emotions?

Children learn by watching us. No parent is perfect obviously, but I don't believe in lying to my children to make my life easier.

Same here. The lying is pure laziness. And then these same parents wonder why their teenager constantly lies to them when it’s obvious to me that a lifetime of being lied to means the acorn hasn’t fallen far from the tree.

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 08/12/2023 22:40

Baublewarble · 08/12/2023 22:27

When the cat gets run over and a neighbour kindly shovels up the remains for binning, I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world to lie to small children about the details.

Weird example of something you’d need to lie about. Genuinely don’t get it. You don’t have to go into gory details sure, but lying? What do you say?

“I’m really sorry, but Cookie died”

”Oh no! What happened?”

Answer 1:

“I’m afraid she was run over. It was ever so quick. She didn’t suffer”

Answer 2:

”Well, she was crushed by a 4x4. I’m afraid she died in a rather gruesome fashion and twitched piteously for a couple of minutes. There was a lot of blood. Mr Davis from no. 14 was going to put her out of her misery but she went still before he could get his hatchet from the shed. Then he was good enough to scoop Cookie’s body into a bin bag for me.”

Answer 1 is a lie. By commission and omission.

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 22:41

Annon1234 · 08/12/2023 22:37

I honestly can’t think of a time I’ve had that excited feeling of anticipation of Santa coming on Christmas, I couldn’t sleep, we’d listen out for him and for me it’s not a feeling that can be matched. Of corse I was disappointed to find out he wasn’t real but it hasn’t traumatised me I think of all those Christmas of when I did believe and how magical they were and am so grateful for my parents for making it such a magical time. Now I have my own child we still do the same thing she believes in Santa and he brings all the presents but we do tell her that we send the money for things on her list so she knows, or will understand more when she’s older it’s not a never ending pit of presents she will receive

I never had this and was always really jealous of my friends who celebrated Christmas. I haven’t decided if I’m going to “do” Santa when my son is old enough to understand yet but I would love him to experience this kind of magic. Kids have such an awesome capacity for imagination.

SlightlygrumpyBettyswaitress · 08/12/2023 22:41

My parents never did Father Christmas.
I did it with mine. Followed my wise sil and only stockings came from FC. Never used as a threat. Never promised anything.
Keep it simple. They stopped believing at 8 or so. But they really enjoyed it. When their baby sister came along they loved doing it with her.

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 22:42

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:35

@BabaBarrio its not truthful to say you don’t know when in actual fact you do know , is it? That’s a lie regardless of whether it’s ’age appropriate’ 🤣

I would suggest that the fact you’ve admitted lying to your child so quickly, is a sign that this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you think back, you’ll probably identify many other instances!

Totally this!🤣 but this is the internet where people lie about not lying!

Blessedbethefruitz · 08/12/2023 22:43

My mother did many things that damaged me in my childhood. But I never asked about santa (who filled the stocking and bought 1 tree gift - others were from family) and on that front at least, we're all good! I spotted the same wrapping paper and handwriting and conspired with a cousin for 2 years before we agreed that he didn't exist...

In our home, santa does stockings and 1 tree gift (nothing ludicrously expensive, but something wanted). We leave snacks out for him, and ds (almost 5) has been amazed in previous years at the missing bites.

For us, it's about the little rituals. Once they're old enough to ask, of course you don't lie! We also have a fairy door though - she visits randomly to bring useful things like new books and occasional treats. She was also helpful for swapping baby bottles for sippee cups at much too late an age (health issues)... Childhood is so short, it should be magical.

Elfnsafetyhat · 08/12/2023 22:44

@BabaBarrio apologies I was getting you mixed up with @Baublewarble !

MaggieBroonofGlebeSt · 08/12/2023 22:45

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 22:42

Totally this!🤣 but this is the internet where people lie about not lying!

Show quote history

There's a lot of people who are desperate to pull children into the grown up world. Very strange. I remember my older sister telling me that Santa didn't exist when I was five. I was gutted, and I know she did it to upset me, because that's what she's like.
I'd murder my DS if he did that to his little sister, but I know he wouldn't.

BabaBarrio · 08/12/2023 22:46

StarDolphins · 08/12/2023 22:42

Totally this!🤣 but this is the internet where people lie about not lying!

Show quote history

Except @Elfnsafetyhat has mistaken me for another poster.

Nepmarthiturn · 08/12/2023 22:46

So now we are conflating Santa with religion? Santa is for the secular atheist who decides to have a fake religion for their child so they can laugh at the child as a proxy for all the religious adults they cannot laugh at in public? 🤣

What?

No. People were saying that letting small children engage in the fantasy of the Santa story is "lying to them".

Some of those same people also said that categorically telling small children that Santa is not real would better enable them to focus on Jesus at Christmas.

I was pointing out that it's normal for small children to engage in imaginary stories and pretend they are real, it's part if their normal development, be it through fairy tales, stories of dragons or fairies or witches or Narnia or superheroes ir whatever and Santa is no different. And pointing out the utter hypocrisy of anybody objecting to parents not stamping on their children's imaginations, yet indoctrinating children into believing in invisible "Gods" that are watching them at all times and judging them and will make them burn in fire for all eternity if they are not judged to have adequately followed a set of rules made up by humans a couple of thousand years ago, and telling them that this is literally real. And persisting with this throughout their childhoods and formative years... and yet seem to believe this is in some way life enhancing and letting a small child believe a fairy tale about a kind man giving children presents would be extremely damaging.

Also who is laughing at their child? You seem to have some very warped views. My child often pretends she is a cat. Am I "damaging her" and ridiculing her if I go along with her game? Should I just refuse to play with her and crush her imagination and tell her she's only allowed to play "office worker types on laptop for 8 hours"?

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