PIP

[Ostagazuzulum]

I know this is going to be controversial. That's not my intention.

I want to stress that I'm not having a go at anyone who gets benefits. I'm just curious about pip and how it's justified.

One of my friends today has told me that they were recently approved for pip in higher scale. Going to be getting around £700 a month apparently. She doesn't claim any other benefits. She has fibromyalgia. Her and her husband both have middle management full time jobs earning around £80k per year between the pair of them. They own their own home and she's very open about having around £12k in savings. Three children all of school age.

They're intending on using the money for holidays mostly.

I'm just baffled how it's justified.

She definitely suffers with the condition, can sometimes struggle with mobility. and you can see she's in pain. But what's the purpose of pip? Her condition isn't incurring any extra costs and isn't being spent on day to day help. Why do we have it for those circumstances?

Adding in the details of one specific claimant when asking is absolute judgement.

I'd say its an invitation to disabled benefits bashing - " judgement" means something slightly different.

Then bashing is judgement 🤷🏻‍♀️

Really good point! I don’t think the format of the form has changed in years and needs to be updated.

@keye there’s a definition in the dictionary or just google. Perhaps you mean “Judgemental”? It isn’t important, I think your intent is clear.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here but bashing benefit claimants is judging them, or the system; or both.

The 'dictionary' comment? If not important why mention it? It certainly didn’t make you look as clever as you think it did.

I don’t think I’m clever at all, certainly not for knowing what “judge” means. I think you misunderstood my post. I think the poster wanted to encourage people to doubt disability benefits were deserved, not be judgemental. I apologise if I’ve upset you.

Ah the standard mumsnet go to - 'I'm sorry if I upset you' - patronising crap. Of course you haven't upset me. It's a forum discussion not anything remotely important.

This is really interesting and very sad to read.

I've learnt a lot through this thread. I'm clearly woefully ignorant in alot of ways and will happily stand corrected but reading everything, it very much feels that the approach to awarding PIP is very subjective and almost haphazard and sometimes unfair how people have to fight. I think my friend employed an expert to do her claim for her but it was costly. Not everyone can afford that. Listening to your story I don't understand why you're not given the higher rate. How do they justify that?

So they stop pip at 65? How is that justified. If you need it why do they feel that need suddenly stops on your 65th birthday? Is your pension meant to replace it? That seems unfair.

And you don't get in in hospital for overnight stays? Are you not meant to rely on that money? How do they expect you to manage? That seems crazy too.

I know it's benefitting lots of clearly deserving people but it feels like a very flawed system.

So they stop pip at 65? How is that justified. If you need it why do they feel that need suddenly stops on your 65th birthday? I

No they don't. If you are on PIP when you reach pension age you remain on it. If you want to claim after pension age you claim attendance allowance which is essentially the same except it lacks the mobility element.

Don't worry op, plenty of people don't apply for PIP because they can't face doing it or are too confused by the process. The government no doubt save a lot of money due to this. More money to go to their villainous mates.

Really?

Love how judgemental you are about me presumably insinuating I'm a villainous mate. You know absolutely nothing.

Get a grip.

In all honesty the DLA/PIP is not the hardest part for disabled people. It’s a heave but not the same push as ensuring education and health. I think people imagine that those experiencing difficulty accessing these things are either borderline or particularly poor at forms or disorganised. The truth is it’s an enormous amount of work particularly if you are living with a more challenging condition anyway. You find out about each benefit or accommodation almost by chance and it’s so far from straightforward it’s a joke.

WaitingForMojo · Today 09:12

@Elleherd that is awful and I wish I was surprised.

small piece of good news though is that you won’t lose pip at 65. If you’re awarded prior to retirement age, you continue to be eligible.

@WaitingForMojo I've just come back from a long hard day to find this! It isn't a small piece of good news, it's huge and life changing for me! * *I can't thank you enough! I have been being told otherwise for some time by DWP debt recovery, and told to prepare for a very miserable difficult future which tbh I wasn't sure I could face. When I previously googled it seemed they were correct. What's coming up now is so very different and is going to make such a difference to my future as well as eradicate the fear I've been living under, as without mobility allowance I'm literally trapped at home unable to go anywhere.
I'm looking forward to calling debt recovery tomorrow and telling them they've been wrongly taking maximum repayments of me and scaring me for no good reason and the game is up!

Ostagazuzulum I'm incredibly pleased to say I'm wrong about automatically losing PIP at 65, but I've been being told that's the case and it's been being used as a reason to try and recover a debt (incurred through a hospital social worker making a mistake not anything I did wrong) at maximum weekly amounts.

You lose PIP if you are in hospital for 28 days or more, or return to hospital within 28 days of your last inpatient stay regardless of length.

My PIP rates fluctuate according to what rubbish Capita/Atos etc come out with at reviews, not my disability fluctuating - it only ever goes downhill. I'm deteriorating as a result of the conditions, a lifetime of overusing my body, and age.
You do usually get what you have lost back eventually, through appeal, but by then the interest on the loans you've had to take out to cover survival, wipes out everything.
Examples of PIP review rubbish are claiming: I "walked into the room with ease" Interesting. I've been in a wheelchair for more than a decade and a half!
"experiences heart palpitations which she worries about." Nope, my heart can stop signaling and my organs shut down, leading to unconsciousness and death if I'm not got to resus, fitted with a central line in my neck and copious amounts of chemicals pumped into me for days in HDU. I don't worry about it, I wouldn't get through a day if I did. But how did he translate that into 'palpitations?'
"She refused to straighten her legs." No, I was born with rickets, my bones are visibly bent! I have no way of following the command to straighten my legs!
I was "able to speak clearly and concisely" then why were you shouting at me that you couldn't understand me and I needed to make more effort? I actually illicitly taped that one, as it was the tip of the iceberg of a large sports physiotherapist standing over me shouting and making accusations.

Note that an under employed sports therapist is who is being used to decide how multiple disability affects someone who has MRI's, x-rays, and multiple consultants reports.
The process is designed to humiliate and treat disabled people as potential fraudsters. Your friend may be less keen when she's had a review.

(They are so far behind that my review that should have happened this autumn has now got a decision date of Dec 2024)

As Tome Tome rightly says "You find out about each benefit or accommodation almost by chane and it’s so far from straightforward it’s a joke."

It’s a ridiculous benefit. I have been trying to claim it for my DH who had a stroke last year. He struggles with mobility and pretty much all tasks but because he can wipe his own arse, lift his hands above his head and walk unassisted 200m ( despite it taking him at least 10mins) he scored zero. We did ask for a review because the initial assessor made some rather presumptuous observations. She didn’t consider he had any cognitive problems, he has.
She assumed he could feed himself, he can but has aphasia which means that I have to prepare food that is easier to swallow. He struggles with fine motor skills in his dominant hand so can make a cup of tea but cannot butter a piece of bread or use a knife to cut meat.
All of this was ignored.
Strike victims often have difficulty claiming it but if you have mental health issues it’s much easier.

but if you have mental health issues it’s much easier.

It most certainly is not @Angrymum22. And it is best not to presume it's easier for ANYONE. The system is a steaming, putrid mess and seems to have been devised by, and is administered by, people who lack empathy and who have no understanding of flux and nuance.

I think quite often people assume the bar is much lower than it is to qualify. Perhaps it’s all the press making our disabled people are bludgers, but you really do have to be quite significantly impaired to be awarded DLA or PIP.

Just as an add on only 27% of disabled people work full time. I did not become disabled until 37. Was I suspose to retire!? I have two Oxford degrees and kept going otherwise what a blinking waste. There is nothing wrong with my brain and my career is C Suite however no one makes it easy for me. I even had one employer forget to tell me the lift was broken and I would need to climb five flights of stairs. I left soon after as my mobility issues were not 'chic'. Bastards.
We never know what is around the corner and before my illness I was a long distance runner. A little compassion is not much to ask.

I am on a breast cancer support forum where a significant number of members are successful in their PIP applications. It seems that most are far more able than DH, certainly no cognitive problems and judging by their posts they do not have the mobility issues DH has. What they do have is significant issues with their mental health post cancer which seems to swing the decision.
I’m not saying that the average person with depression is more likely to receive an award. Just that stroke victims are not accommodated within the PIP assessment. When the longterm damage results in mobility, cognitive and behavioural change they don’t have a box that it fits in.

Many stroke victims complete rehab without a great deal of medical intervention particularly if they recover well. But that’s where treatment stops and you fall off the cliff edge. There is little more that rehab can offer if you reach the limit of possibilities.
GPs tend to write you off and unless you need a care package you are pretty much left to get on with it. Yearly checks for BP but no sit down for a quick check on how you are coping.
Mental health in general is far better supported even with the scant service available. When DH was discharged from the stroke service the GP surgery didn’t even acknowledge it. When I was discharged from the breast cancer team I had a lovely chat with one of the GPs.
Even the stroke association are at a loss why PIP is so difficult to qualify for stroke victims.
DH is very independent but only because I let him think he is. Behind the scenes I organise all the financial side of our life along with his every day needs. Yes he can pop his tablets out of the foil packet and mostly remember to take them, but is not able to work out when they are running out and need reordering. He uses an inhaler, unless I check ( it’s easy to see how many doses left) he will carry on using an empty one for a few days until he starts to have breathing difficulties.
DH has paid tax and NI for 40+ yrs and has never claimed a benefit in all that time. Now when we could do with a little help with his care it’s not available.
I am considering claiming for myself under the breast cancer umbrella just to see if I fare better.

Have you seen what they wrote on their forms and the medical evidence they sent? They may also have diagnoses you're unaware of

PIP baffles me, it really does. My DH had a work accident, leg ripped off at the scene. Turned down for PIP as it's not a permanent disability!

When the longterm damage results in mobility, cognitive and behavioural change they don’t have a box that it fits in.

They do. There is a 2 part section regarding mobility and the cognitive impairment will come under various descriptors under the care side.

Please don't make judgements on others. It's not you against them. We all need it to be better.

That's horrific, and I would assume overturned at MR?

No. But DH is very proud and didn't appeal as he didn't want to beg for money. Although it would have helped enormously with his independence.