PIP

[Ostagazuzulum]

I know this is going to be controversial. That's not my intention.

I want to stress that I'm not having a go at anyone who gets benefits. I'm just curious about pip and how it's justified.

One of my friends today has told me that they were recently approved for pip in higher scale. Going to be getting around £700 a month apparently. She doesn't claim any other benefits. She has fibromyalgia. Her and her husband both have middle management full time jobs earning around £80k per year between the pair of them. They own their own home and she's very open about having around £12k in savings. Three children all of school age.

They're intending on using the money for holidays mostly.

I'm just baffled how it's justified.

She definitely suffers with the condition, can sometimes struggle with mobility. and you can see she's in pain. But what's the purpose of pip? Her condition isn't incurring any extra costs and isn't being spent on day to day help. Why do we have it for those circumstances?

@EpidermolysisBullosa im absolutely gobsmacked that you “only” got low rate mobility and no care awarded. Did you think about taking it to a tribunal at all? Surely with all of that evidence it is obvious how much help and support you need. The system is so flawed.

I’ve posted this on another pip thread and I feel almost embarrassed now to admit it but I have multiple physical and MH issues. I’m 45 and did not see myself as bad as I actually am and requested a pip form 3 times but never filled it in as I couldn’t deal with the stress. I did it again earlier in the year and yet again I didn’t fill it in but received a text for assessment which I found bizarre and felt i had nothing to lose.

assessment took over 2 hours on the phone and my assessor was absolutely lovely but I know that means nothing really and 2 weeks later I had received a large back pay and was awarded enhanced rate for both elements. I didn’t fill in a form or provide any evidence and that’s what makes me angry for people like you who have done all of the above.

pip has been utterly life changing for me and my family and I’m really grateful for it but when I keep on hearing these stories about how other claimants are treated it makes my blood boil. The system is outdated and needs a complete overhaul. Someone on another thread mentioned that there should be a descriptor for cleaning/laundry etc and I agree. Also the “ do you drive?” Question is often used as a way to trip people up ( I don’t drive ) and it’s wrong. I really wish that the whole process could be challenged and the forms updated to reflect how our struggles really affect us rather than it being a tick box exercise and then reviewed by actual medical professionals.

Hello fellow lupey!!!! I get it as I’m not allowed to bath etc on my own ( and I once forgot I was cooking and set a small fire!) amongst other things. Unseen disabilities are awful, not just in having them, but having people who think we “look fine”. Spoons to you!! 💐

I don't get the issue with being asked if you drive. That being said, it was decided that I could but had chosen not to. My parents were told when I was 4 I'd never meet the minimum standards for driving. Every consultant since I was 18 said the same. One said he sees patients who meet the minimum standards but when it comes to the test, they fail the eyesight checks. Due to the nature of my eyesight condition, it's harder to drive safely.

They ask it because it's evidence that you can see well enough, you can do things like follow a journey and have cognitive ability. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Of course it's unreasonable. There are more variables at play and being able to drive does not reflect ability in other areas. The 'you can do X so we think you can do Y' is a ridiculous method of assessing someone's disability.

I can drive, sometimes. There are times when I can't even leave the house to put my rubbish in the bin, should my variances be ignored because I 'can’ drive?

The driving question is attached to some very outdated and shitty opinions about disabilities.

I swear some people would like us all stuck at home with zero quality of life

You’re right, it is ridiculous and woudn’t be tolerated as a valid method of evaluating someone’s ability in any other situation. But it does happen. I’ve handled many reconsiderations and tribunal appeals where someone’s whole PIP claim has been affected by the fact that they can drive, on the basis that their own estimation of their condition is wrong and they’re more capable than they’re admitting to.

When driving you’re displaying concentration, understanding of written instruction and signage, rules of the road, flexibility of movement in doing your observations before manoeuvring. They will even use the ability to use the foot pedals as an indication of physical ability. You’re also demonstrating physical ability to actually handle the car safely. All of these things can be used against you.

For example if you say you have difficulty concentrating because of a mild cognitive disorder, if it’s not enough to stop you from driving, that will be used to show that your difficulty doesn’t have a great impact.

If you say you have restricted movement in joints, your neck for example, or grip in your hands, again your ability to drive will be cited - movement of neck in observations, grip on the steering wheel, ability to control the car in general. PIP doesn’t consider the disability itself, but the impact of it on daily life and the ability to drive can be a gift to the assessor in minimising the overall effect of your condition. I’ve even known assessors to give claimants a stern lecture on the need to report such difficulties to the DVLA, which isn’t helpful.

I advise all claimants who drive that they will be asked about this, and to report any aids or adaptations they use to mitigate the effects of their disability on their driving ability - even if it’s only a switch to an automatic gearbox for ease. You should also report it if your condition means there are days when it affects your ability to drive, or stops you from doing it at all. And those claimants who drive adapted or wheelchair accessible vehicles with hand controls and other specialist adaptations should always make sure that they state in details what the adaptations are and what they’re for, otherwise you’ll be judged in the same way.

@Pigeonqueen hi, im due to have my assessment, and feel like i will be judged because ive apied. Dont wanna be telling people in work because i know people just gossip etc . X

I am amazed that people still think that PIP is means tested.

@ALongHardWinter what do you mean? Wpuld they not need to get hold of workplace? X

Fibro - the gift that keeps on giving, it seems.

What do you mean?

Former benefits adviser here. Assessors will ask claimants if they drive as a matter of routine. The reasoning is that if you can and do drive, you are displaying cognitive skills, manual dexterity, physical strength, multi tasking and concentration. These can all be used to disprove other aspects of disability being claimed. I always advised claimants that if they could only drive an automatic, or used specialist car controls to accommodate disability then it was crucial that they assessor understood this. I’ve seen many a PIP claim turned down because the assessor has successfully argued that the claim to a certain level of impairment has been disproved by the ability to drive.

Assessors will also ask if you have a pet. If you have a dog, unless you state otherwise they will assume that you walk it, and that can be used to deny a claim for mobility component. The ability to feed and generally look after a pet can also be used against a claimant in the daily living component too.

The ability to work isn’t considered in the PIP assessment. It assesses your ability to mobilise and a range of personal care and daily living tasks. You can work and claim PIP.