PIP

[Ostagazuzulum]

I know this is going to be controversial. That's not my intention.

I want to stress that I'm not having a go at anyone who gets benefits. I'm just curious about pip and how it's justified.

One of my friends today has told me that they were recently approved for pip in higher scale. Going to be getting around £700 a month apparently. She doesn't claim any other benefits. She has fibromyalgia. Her and her husband both have middle management full time jobs earning around £80k per year between the pair of them. They own their own home and she's very open about having around £12k in savings. Three children all of school age.

They're intending on using the money for holidays mostly.

I'm just baffled how it's justified.

She definitely suffers with the condition, can sometimes struggle with mobility. and you can see she's in pain. But what's the purpose of pip? Her condition isn't incurring any extra costs and isn't being spent on day to day help. Why do we have it for those circumstances?

I'm just pointing out that you can qualify for mobility without having the walking issues for 20m etc.. you mentioned

Exactly. I wrote very clearly on my form in large letters “I can physically walk” and then went into detail about my condition and how it affects me. I didn’t tick any of the boxes to say how far I could walk. I left them blank. Gamble but hey. The assessor decided to grant me the full points and said I wasn’t able to walk far at all based on what I’d written.

If you are familiar with the handbook then you know that the assessment is based on the 'majority of days'. A fact is a fact.

I’m not disputing this is in the handbook. I’m saying thankfully discretion is used and common sense!

Because the person assessing felt that you couldn't reliably, timely and repeatedly walk more than 20m on the majority of days. Which would be correct for some people with severe lupus.

Yes. Dc gets the high rate with no trouble walking at all. They granted it on the basis of other evidence.

You don’t have to be able to walk less than 20m to get HRM.

To @Ostagazuzulum youd be better off directing your attention to the tax evaders who are depriving our country of resources for our social welfare.

and absolutely yes to the pp who said they never mention their awards to anyone for fear of judgement.

@Ostagazuzulum I look pretty bloody good mainly. I’m also in continuous pain. I take more medication than I can keep track of and I pace my activities severely so yes, I do x but at the expense of y and z that you can do without thought. That’s expensive as I need the heating on more. I have to pay for private therapies and nutritious meals that are quick and easy to make. And so many other items that make a difference.

Im still in pain. I will still need expensive state care in the future but for now they are helping me to stay as well and independent as possible. Think of that when you judge your friend.

If due to a physical condition on the majority of days you must be unable to walk more than 20m reliably, timely and repeatedly (for enhanced)

You can however get mobility based on other conditions such as learning disability, seizures etc where you can physically walk without restriction, but would be vulnerable when out alone, it comes under a different descriptor.

There's a widespread policy to refuse applicants on intital application. As much as it would tax your friend to do so, she really will stand a better chance having a mandatory reconsideration.

Hmmn maybe concentrate on your own life!
This is why I don't tell anyone how much my PIP is although I'm visibly disabled so it's obvious really
PIP is NOT means tested... anyone who meets the incredibly strict criteria is eligible
YABU

Your post comes across as judgmental.

So PIP is a benefit that’s paid to people who suffer from chronic condition/s which affects their ability to function on a day to day basis.

The payment is used to make their life a bit more bearable and easier as they are usually struggling in some way with activities of daily living.

Remember that disability is often invisible.

PIP is also non means tested so you can get it if your disability or condition affects you but you can still work.

To the OP

If a millionaire like David Cameron is entitled to claim then I really wouldn't dwell on your friend.

I don't claim it (I have RA) but my friend with spondyloarthritis as well as epilepsy does. I have thought of claiming (no I don't need the money) as I am in constant pain, have put on loads of weight because I cannot move and am just knackered to the point it has severely affected my ability to work for 18 months. So why have I not claimed? I guess I am a 'well it is not that bad' sort of person even when it is bloody awful and in addition don't need some interrogation from some disinterested administrator (not putting them down, but it must be a dull job). Interestingly I have never claimed any benefit (well, child benefit for a few years almost 20 years ago) but I would not feel bad claiming. I view it as I have paid at least £1 million in tax over my working life and honestly, I don't think I will be claiming much of my pension. At least 10% of this tax is national insurance and part of this insurance is as I see it a pay out for if my health takes a tumble. I don't view it any differently than my private life insurance policy. What would I spend it on? Nothing specific, but it might enable me to just work a little less which would really help.

So don't be baffled how it is justified. Unless you think it is fair that some people pay tax all their lives and never claim anything even when they could do with some support because it should only go to the absolutely destitute. I would agree with you if that is what you think, provided they massively cut taxes accordingly. But I quite like the safety net of not having to be out on the street or unable to get out of bed before I get help so happy to pay the tax.

I was recently awarded pip after suffering for many years but was put off applying many times after receiving the form due to all the horror stories we hear.

i requested the form again and once again I couldn’t face filling it in so didn’t but was still given an assessment over the phone which lasted for 2 hours 4 minutes. I was awarded enhanced rate for both elements.

im 45 years old and also have fibromyalgia like your friend. Most people who know me know this about me. I suffer greatly with pain and only leave the house when I really have to. I also have incontinence issues, sciatica for the last 18 years, anxiety, ocd and ADHD, all diagnosed and medicated for. I do not disclose that information to many people for obvious reasons and nobody really sees how much I struggle. I also have 2 dc with autism ( what would be classed as “high functioning” ) and they also have severe anxiety so life is bloody hard. Pip has changed our lives. Seriously.

Katie Price has made no secret that her son Harvey claims it too. Why shouldn’t he? It’s not means tested and is one of the few benefits that isn’t. People can and do work who claim pip. I am unable to work for now and feel like I’m just existing, people do judge but don’t often know the bigger picture.

But you might pay for taxis to get to appointments. You would pay for deliveries if you can’t get to the shops. You might pay for a motobility car because it is the only way you can get from A to B. You might pay more for your food shop because it is harder to shop around if you rely on a delivery from one supermarket. You might pay more for your heating because you are always at home. You might have to pay to get your medication delivered. You might have to pay to have a hairdresser come to your house, or a chiropodist, or a physiotherapist and so on.

I don’t have agoraphobia but with a bit of imagination I can see why having it might cost someone more.

I'm going to answer as if your question is genuine. In the example you have given for your 'friend' a PIP award is used to fund;
For eg:
higher heating costs, because being cold can be incredibly painful for fibromyalgia sufferers.

taxis/transportation costs, as sufferers can experience exhaustion or pain and be unable to use public transport.

pre-prepared food as exhaustion/pain/lack of dexterity often means an inability to be able to prepare meals.

food deliveries, for the same reasons.

alternative treatments unavailable on NHS, anything from CBD products to acupuncture.

domestic or personal care support, anything from cleaner/hairdresser/podiatrist.

childcare (in any form from babysitters to clubs) so that the person in pain has less demanding childcare responsibilities when suffering.

Your friend has undoubtedly spent money on some/all of these things in an effort to try and manage her condition. A PIP award simply means that she is no longer funding the additional expenses herself (directly). But, as it sounds like she and her husband are long term tax payers, they have, of course, contributed to the system that is now helping her out.

It’s insane that PIP isn’t means tested. All state benefits should be means tested. We shouldn’t be giving public money to people who don’t need it. And it’s all very well saying it levels things up, so the person claiming PIP isn’t disadvantaged by their disability, but if they’re a multi millionaire shouldn’t they be doing a bit of levelling up themselves to help poor people?!

My sister has chronic asthma, COPD, extreme breathlessness and terrible back pain if she stands too long or walks more than 200m. The first question on the PiP form is “Can you wash yourself?” She can. As the questions go on my dsis can do most herself. Yet she cannot function “as normal” all of the time. She cannot get herself out of bed until she has taken her inhalers. These take up to an hour to take effect.

Because she can wash herself she is not eligible for PIP. Yet we see friends and neighbours who function normally - Out shopping, always out at the pub at weekends, hold down jobs starting early mornings. So active all through the day.

What is the the secret of claiming PIP please when you are unable to work or function within the realms of “normal” but you can carry out self care skills? It’s an enigma

If she can still earn that kind of money with her condition she shouldn’t be getting £700 in disability money every month what a piss take

@MellowYellowWithaBitofPurple

What is the the secret of claiming PIP please when you are unable to work or function within the realms of “normal” but you can carry out self care skills? It’s an enigma

If your health condition means that you take a long time to wash yourself, or you need a half hour rest after you've washed, you can claim.

Any health condition that means that a PIP descriptor takes you ages to complete is a reason to claim.

The OP, and some of the comments here, have made my stomach utterly sink. I get comments all the time from people who seem to think I'm not actually that disabled. I'm not going into it here, I'm quite riled. But the ableism in some of these comments is vile. It is absolutely none of any of yours business what is or isn't on someone else's PIP claim. Its none of your business why we might qualify. And our conditions are absolutely not up for speculation by you, who are neither experts on our conditions, or living in our bodies. How bloody insulting.

You need professional help to fill out the forms by the sound of it because there appears to be a definite need. Contact a local CAB to find benefit support services. It really makes a difference as to how you approach the form. In the small example you have given the completed form should be demonstrating to the assessor that your sister can only wash herself when using pharmaceutical aides.

I’ll bite too.

I work full time in a well paid job. I am also a wheelchair user. I need help dressing. I can’t cook from scratch. I can’t do housework. I can’t wash or dry my own hair. I can’t easily navigate public transport without assistance.

I use my PIP (higher rate mobility, standard daily living) to have a cleaner, have my hair washed and blow dried and to use taxis. We could forego our annual family holiday to fund that, but I don’t feel my family should suffer more than they already do due to my increasing disability.

Why should she use a huge chunk of her wages mitigating the effects of her illness when she already pays into a system designed to support people with illnesses? You think it's fair she pays twice for being ill?