PIP

[Ostagazuzulum]

I know this is going to be controversial. That's not my intention.

I want to stress that I'm not having a go at anyone who gets benefits. I'm just curious about pip and how it's justified.

One of my friends today has told me that they were recently approved for pip in higher scale. Going to be getting around £700 a month apparently. She doesn't claim any other benefits. She has fibromyalgia. Her and her husband both have middle management full time jobs earning around £80k per year between the pair of them. They own their own home and she's very open about having around £12k in savings. Three children all of school age.

They're intending on using the money for holidays mostly.

I'm just baffled how it's justified.

She definitely suffers with the condition, can sometimes struggle with mobility. and you can see she's in pain. But what's the purpose of pip? Her condition isn't incurring any extra costs and isn't being spent on day to day help. Why do we have it for those circumstances?

Anyone winging about this has clearly never tried to get awarded PIP, Capita are renowned for lying about assessments, and generally making life hard for people entitled to help. Either your ‘friend’ had a lot of time and patience to appeal and an abundance of medical professionals willing to lie for her in reports, or she is clearly affected more than you believe by her illnesses. It’s not easy to claim PIP at all.

I,m, on the DLA equivalent groups of course there are people who try it on but most who try it on don't actually get anywhere with their claim.

Indeed you can because my son does.

His autism and high anxiety means he can't plan and undertake journeys on his own. Once someone has done the journey with him a few times, then he can find his way. But any new journey (like starting a new job in an area he is not familiar with) requires assistance to plan and then accompany him.

So he gets the higher rate of PIP for mobility, so he can cover the costs incurred by other people helping him (usually me) which most people wouldn't need. His needs have affected my ability to work full time and therefore it has affected my income, so his bit of PIP to pay for petrol etc., is appreciated

It does not entitle him to a Blue Badge though. In order to qualify for a blue badge the higher rate has to have been awarded for a specific category of need, which he didn't meet.

@Superunknown1 agreed. I am ds1's appointee and during his PIP assessment the assessor kept trying to trip me up. E.g. She asked if he could go to the cinema with friends. I said no. Next question was So when he goes to the cinema with friends, can he get to the cinema on his own. I told her that I'd already said that he couldn't go out to the cinema with friends. No doubt if I had just said no to the 2nd question the assessor would have written that he could go out unsupervised.

I 'm just relieved I could do the phone call on his behalf. He is autistic and would get very upset if someone tried to manipulate his words like that.

That actually isn’t necessarily contradictory.

The whole system of PIP is a complete shambles imo. A lot of whether a person is awarded it, or not boils down to whoever they happen to see at an assessment.

I claim pip and it took me years to get it having had rheumatoid arthritis for twenty years. I also recently developed fibromialga.
I am also a 45% tax payer. Why do I claim it? When I was ill for 9 months this year, bed bound as I am now for the last five days, I could claim nothing. DWP currently use NI contributions from 2020/2021 when I was a shielder. No one would employ me and I was awarded nothing due to no contributions in this year. This is unfair and I currently pay huge returns. If I'm ill again will I get anything other than my pip? I doubt it. I have lived with RA for decades but the fibromialga is a complete bastard. Don't underestimate the pain. It's hell.
I have had to give up jobs due to illness and believe me that is heartbreaking. I've lost a home and hundreds of thousands in income. Don't begrudge your friend a little money. I would willing give back my £274 for a pain free life and normal loo seats/ no walking stick.

There are some helpful posts on this thread. There is also misinformation and massively ableist assumptions.

Crikey, no wonder some people keep it under their hat that they are on disability benefits. With such judgy people around.

People with disabilities are allowed holidays and decent cars @Ostagazuzulum I am just speechless at this thread.

Ain’t that the truth!

my DH has been diagnosed with myeloma and has 5 broken vertebrae. He’s bed bound and can’t walk at all. I’ve had to give up work to look after him and our 2 small kids.

we got awarded lower rate care. That’s it. Now we have to deal with the appeal process on top of everything else.

How do you know SO many people are not entitled to it (who get it?) You don't know everything about everyone. What a ludicrous post.

It’s not about ‘buzzwords’. It’s about knowing the law, and knowing the descriptors inside out. Yes, it’s wrong that people need to access that to prove eligibility. But it’s about case law and eligibility criteria. And explaining exactly how the descriptors are met.

She should definitely appeal. Go to benefits and work website and use their guides to help complete the form.
I think quite often you need to appeal.

At what point did I say they didn't deserve it???

I promise you I don't begrudge her.

@Drdoomish this is unfortunately extremely common. Your friend needs to submit a mandatory reconsideration request. Asking the DWP to look again at the decision.

You have 13 months in law in which to do this. The DWP will lead you to believe that you have a month, which is wrong.

I've been getting PIP for years, from back when it was DLA for adults. I'm on the enhanced rate for both components and I don't have specific disability costs that I use it for. However I'm not able to work due to disability, so in a way paying for general living expenses is a disability cost since I can't pay for them using wages. My disabled needs are such that spending money on them doesn't make sense. E.g. I can't drive due to disability, so I don't take the Motability option, but I get a disabled travel pass for public transport so most of my transport is free. I don't like using taxis due to social anxiety and I prefer public transport or walking. I need a cleaner as I struggle with housework but I have too much anxiety to let someone into my home, so I don't spend any money there. And my needs are severe enough that I've been able to access NHS psychotherapy over a long period (years - I think they like analysing my weird brain so they've kept me on) so I've not had to pay for private therapy.

I've always been able to get PIP without appeals and MR as I'm obsessive about collecting and maintaining my medical files, so I have lots of up to date evidence.

Financially we would be fine without the money as DH is a high earner, but without my disabilities I could have been a high earner too so it's important for me to have my own income. I've developed a hobby in investing which has allowed me to save and grow the money and provides a passive income for me too.

PIP has done exactly what it is supposed to do here; allow me access to work and education by covering some of the otherwise prohibitive costs incurred through working around (multiple) disability. That in turn means I am able to do work that benefits many others. My worth isn't measured by how much I cost, or how little I earn, but in how many others do better and use less resources as a result of what I do on very little.

I am in a wheelchair, unable to access public transport without assistance, and frequently hospitalized with lots of clear medical evidence and scans showing my deterioration. But that doesn't stop Capita etc from lying and trying to reduce my award so that I have to give up work, and it doesn't stop stupid neighbors from reporting me for benefit fraud for working or attending university. It doesn't stop colleagues or uni from speculating about what I really can or can't do and if I really deserve assistance or suggesting either I should silently manage or not be there. (Usually to do with ramps, doors, inability to reach, poor planning on their part etc.)
But I get sent home when my struggles are too visible as not fit to be on campus, but still have to pay the fees. I lose contracts through others embarrassment at seeing reality. I constantly have to hide how I am achieving things and how hard it physically is. A different type of means testing.

Despite PIP I struggle financially because the same award has to cover so, so, much and the attitude is I get help, so can earn less and work more. It's a very vicious circle.
Every time I'm in hospital for four weeks plus, or without a four week gap between being an inpatient, I lose my PIP, right at the time I need it the most to cover my rent and council tax, so the system already means tests me saying I am living elsewhere and fed, so don't need to pay for a home left empty, and can reasonably lose it if I can't save or borrow enough to see me through.

I can't start and end my day without assistance. I can't use a council carer as they can't provide set times and work limited hours, but of course have to pay an element of CT to meet the social care bill. So I have to use the carers allowance system to employ one who can come when I start and finish work, and do a seven day week. They get £76.75 a week for 40 hrs a week, which I have to top up in order to interest anyone. They in turn are means tested by not being allowed to earn more than £139 a week on top. Inevitably I can only attract the desperate or between other jobs, (and students aren't allowed) and they don't last long.
I lost my pension to divorce and will work till I die, even though he died without accessing that pension, it doesn't revert to me. At 65 I will lose my PIP and if I am lucky will qualify for the lower sums of attendance allowance, (but fear I may not, as I don't need someone with me at all times) However I can be required to remain working, available for work and job seeking, until 68 without any way of offsetting the additional costs of being a disabled worker, and in reality I will have to keep working. I've been told to invest my (already in use to keep me working) PIP now, in retraining again for WFH work to accommodate this. Working while disabled can trap you into being expected to remain able to.

No amount of saved PIP will result in there being 'more in the pot for those who genuinely need it.' It doesn't work like that, it's all about reducing numbers, not helping getting it to the 'deserving' no matter how obviously disabled you are.

For those who want to see us means tested and forced to jump through further hoops than we already do, our means and right to survive are constantly tested in many ways, so really this is about you being parsimonious and believing that not being disabled gives you the right to judge those who are, as somehow lesser for needing help. Shame on you.

Oh btw we are also means tested to qualify for council carers, and home adaptations and the amount we must pay for them. A disabled CT reduction in my borough, is not based on dsability needs, but how many major disabled adaptations you have in your home.
Hospital beds, dialysis machine, adapted toilets, etc don't count. If you have paid for doors to be widened, ramps etc from a builder who turns out not to be registered to pay tax, they don't count, even though there's a website, sign written van etc, and you paid by bank transfer and have receipts. They want us to pay their extortionate prices for whoever they sub contract (often bodge artists) in order to qualify for the disabled CT reduction, because "that's what your PIP is for." Everyone thinks it's an available pot for them to take because you've been given it.

That's what happened with her. She needed a few months to get her health recovered from the application process and interview. When she thought she only had a month to appeal, it knocked her health back further.

So she gave up applying and hasn't tried since. No amount of money was worth the health knock back again and the impact on her life.

That was Sept 2019.

A financial cost she can't avoid is coming up for her soon. I'm trying to find a way to support her to realise she needs to apply again.

@Drdoomish if she cannot apply herself she can have someone do it for her. There are many disabled people who can’t manage their own affairs.

@Elleherd that is awful and I wish I was surprised.

small piece of good news though is that you won’t lose pip at 65. If you’re awarded prior to retirement age, you continue to be eligible.

IT IS JUDGMENTAL

Having fibro means at some point they might not be able to work my neighbour is an ambulatory wheelchair user because of it you wouldn't know how much she struggles on a good day

I don't think asking for information. On what pip is supposed to be used for is "judgemental", Ido think google is probably more than up to the job of answering that though