PIP

[Ostagazuzulum]

I know this is going to be controversial. That's not my intention.

I want to stress that I'm not having a go at anyone who gets benefits. I'm just curious about pip and how it's justified.

One of my friends today has told me that they were recently approved for pip in higher scale. Going to be getting around £700 a month apparently. She doesn't claim any other benefits. She has fibromyalgia. Her and her husband both have middle management full time jobs earning around £80k per year between the pair of them. They own their own home and she's very open about having around £12k in savings. Three children all of school age.

They're intending on using the money for holidays mostly.

I'm just baffled how it's justified.

She definitely suffers with the condition, can sometimes struggle with mobility. and you can see she's in pain. But what's the purpose of pip? Her condition isn't incurring any extra costs and isn't being spent on day to day help. Why do we have it for those circumstances?

That's what the DWP rely on.

Nearly 80% of tribunals are successful, but fewer than 10% of claimants apply to them, because they can't cope with the stress.

There is a legal procedure, it's nothing to do with pride but I totally understand the thought process there. It's hard enough suddenly becoming disabled without having someone who may not have any background in the medical field relevant to you disability deciding you can do X because you do Y

I think when claiming PiP it's important to recognise an award carries much more value than the financial aspect. For instance I mentioned upthread (I think) about it providing recognition and opening up certain 'disabled' spaces. Maybe not appropriate in your DH case but worth a mention all the same. Without ADP (I'm Scotland) I would have no way to easily 'prove' I'm disabled.

@keye was your case decided on the papers alone or did you have an assessment?

Hotpinkangel19 I used to be similar and went without for a very long time. Eventually I had no choice anymore as my 'pride' was affecting everyone around me's standard of living...

Why do you ask?

I'm not sure if it's me specifically or if you are interested in the ADP process on a general level?

I was awarded over a year ago (I applied as soon as I could) and it was paper based. No assessment but a huge amount of evidence.

I got a 10 year award enhanced on both.

Please don't make judgements on others. It's not you against them. We all need it to be better.

I couldn't agree more. I think people often go down the anecdotal route of thinking they know more than they do. 'Oh, I know someone who ... ' or 'Everyone I know ...' but really we don't know about other people's lives. PIP has been designed as a tough system. It is tough for everyone and my heart goes out to everyone who finds themselves on the gruelling PIP treadmill.

I have fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis and bowel problems. I absolutely hate telling people I have fibro as there's so much judgment on the condition. Plus it's so different for each person. Someone with it can probably hold down a job, albeit with great difficulty and cost physically to themselves and others like me have been signed off work by my GP as each day is different and the pain can strike any body part and be equally debilitating. The fatigue is beyond a joke. I sent my PIP forms off last week but I don't hold out much hope. I've put off the process for a couple of years as I heard how awful it can be. One of the questions about wiping your own bottom?! Well yes I can most days but the days when my back gives out and the pain is unbearable my dh has to help me on and off the toilet. But that's not everyday but it is totally unpredictable. Or I could by walking in a shopping centre and my hips will collapse. Once again not everyday but regularly. I have used my wheelchair for extreme fatigue days. It's horrible. I have very little life compared to what I once had. Horses, great social life, hiking etc. But say the word Fibromyalgia and people assume it's a nothing illness that overweight middle age women claim to have. I have had so many medical tests my latest was a brain scan last week. My doctor is so thorough so I have medical evidence but I know I'll probably fail. My poor dh works 6 days a week so we can afford to live with increasing costs. I have heated blankets which I used most of the time so all adds up to the electric costs plus medication costs. My bowel is such that I need to be close to a toilet during a flare up which strikes anytime. Honestly it's rotten. So anyone reading this thread please believe anyone who has a hidden disability that they need the extra help PIP may provide them.

I asked because I claimed and was awarded PIP before ADP took over.
We're in Scotland.

My son has just claimed ADP for the first time. I was wondering how different the process was now it's ADP?

I had a phone assessment and it really bothered me.

The comments the assessor made totally ignored the information we provided. Basically because DH could sit in front of the computer and answer questions meant that he scored zero. He told her he couldn’t prepare a meal or organise his finances or bills or keep a track of his medication, added to that he needs a knee replacement and has COPD apparently had no bearing on his application. We haven’t even attempted to get in the list for knee replacement because of the stroke. I am well aware of the hidden difficulties. I take medication that causes major joint and muscle weakness and life changing fatigue but because I can, on good days operate fairly normally I don’t consider it merits claiming PIP. Life would be so much easier if I could employ a cleaner but I struggle on because I know that there are people who need assistance more than I do.
It has shocked me how some breast cancer patients start claiming PIP before they have any treatment. Most have to appeal and yes some have a whole host of problems but many just apply because breast cancer qualifies you for disabled status ( in order that you are not discriminated at work when you need time off).
All I’m pointing out is that stroke victims are not easy to pigeon hole in the PIP system and the Stroke Association are lobbying to make the system fairer for them because they don’t slot easily into the simple assessment.
DH can communicate but struggles with moving from one activity to another. He can’t plan routes and struggles with the concept of time, so will start getting ready too late and allow himself 5mins for a 20min journey. If the phone rings it takes him too long to recognise what the noise means. The same happens with the doorbell. He misses phone calls and deliveries.
It’s fine if I’m around but left on his own he will forget to eat and drink because he doesn’t recognise the signals. It’s difficult to describe his cognitive difficulties to someone who may have no training in cognitive loss.
It is infuriating that the assessors have such narrow criteria and are unable to waver from the yes no style answers. DH couldn’t even fill in his form because he can no longer write, but that’s ok because he can use a keyboard or dictation function on his phone.
He can’t work and his world has shrunk immeasurably but that doesn’t seem to count.
I have friend with fibromyalgia who is living the life. She no longer works which I understand but has no where near the day to day problems DH has. She has periods when it flares up and she has to rest but DH sleeps for 75% of the day. His brain just switches off. It takes him days to get over a trip to the cinema. He doesn’t complain and has accepted that this is his future. I hope with time that the fatigue improves but it is like living in limbo. We are in our late 50s/early 60s. It gets me down thinking that this is it.

@Angrymum22

It has shocked me how some breast cancer patients start claiming PIP before they have any treatment. Most have to appeal and yes some have a whole host of problems but many just apply because breast cancer qualifies you for disabled status ( in order that you are not discriminated at work when you need time off).

I don't know anything about this but the criteria are the same for all. It's nothing to do with diagnosis.

But again, judging other people because of your bad experiences isn't helpful for anyone.

When my now 15 year old was an ambulatory wheelchair users people would say to me "well at least he's not autistic, that would be really hard". Then my now 17 year old was diagnosed with autism and people said "well at least he's not a wheelchair user". You couldn't make it up really. I think the PIP/DLA awards really depend on who is assessing. I know someone who has identical twins with identical disabilities who got different awards. She won't appeal in case the higher one gets moved down. My ds1 got lower rate care awarded when he was 9 that didn't need renewing until he qualified for PIP. I didn't ask it to be assessed again in case it was taken away from him. I applied for PIP and he got standard rate for both care and mobility. But they wouldn't back date it to when I filled the form in, in fact they wouldn't let him have the PIP until his DLA ran out a few weeks later. My DS4 was on middle rate care and high rate mobility. At renewal I expected it to go down from high to low rate mobility as he had recently learnt to walk. He went down to nothing. It was a year before I braved the forms again and he got middle rate care, low rate mobility which is what I thought he should have. There seems to be so much unfairness in the system.

If only it were that simple. The PIP assessment is one of the harshest in the benefits system and it’s not what the claimant says they can or cannot do that matters, it’s what the assessor decides in conjunction with the supporting medical evidence the claimant must provide to back up everything they say. Fibbers mostly fail the PIP assessment, as opposed to ending up on the enhanced rates.

Agree. And in addition, disability discrimination is addressed by the Equality Act 2010. Qualifying for PIP is irrelevant.

It actually doesn’t because the person you see at assessment doesn’t make the final benefit decision. That decision is made by a DWP case manager and the assessors’ report is one of a number of things they have to take into consideration.

Just to correct a couple of points. PIP doesn’t stop at 65. If you were awarded PIP before age 65 you can continue to claim it for as long as you satisfy the qualifying conditions. You can’t make a new claim for PIP after age 65 and if you’re an existing claimant who doesn’t qualify for the mobility component or claim the lower rate of it, you can’t apply for a new or higher mobility award after age 65.

And overnight stays in hospital do not affect PIP. You are allowed 28 days in hospital before the benefit is suspended and can reclaim when you leave hospital.

This is not how it works. PIP claimants have to provide proper medical and other types of evidence to support everything they say, and even with medical evidence, most will undergo a face to face assessment with a DWP appointed assessor who will provide a report to the DWP, on which the case manager will largely base their decision, along with any other relevant input. Word of mouth and complaining to your GP won’t get you PIP. Or any other disability/sickness benefit for that matter.

It’s a contentious issue. One of my family members is awarded PIP and she gets £700 every month. She works full time and lives with her husband who earns about £60k. She has a very normal life, holidays, weekends away etc - she’s got a far more active social life than me 😂

I admit that I have often wondered why she is entitled to so much when her disability doesn’t really impact on her life. Ironically, I have the same disability as her, so we talk about it a lot and how in impacts on our lives, both physically and emotionally.

Although I’ve had the disability for over 20 years I have never previously claimed PIP as I didn’t feel it was money I was entitled to as although my health condition is quite serious, I never considered its effects to need financial reimbursement. My disability affected my life on a day-to-day basis but it didn’t incur any extra financial costs.

Over the last few years though my health has deteriorated to the point where I now can’t work and so two months ago I applied for PIP, still not really believing it was something I deserved or would get.

However, last week I heard from the DWP who said they are going to award me PIP and that they will send me an official report in the post to explain their decision and inform me of the amount I will receive.

I will be very interested to read the report and see what it was that made them feel I was entitled to financial support when I know others who have it far worse are declined.

I belong to an online support group
for my disability and PIP comes up a lot and it definitely seems that it’s very hit and miss as to who is awarded it and who isn’t. Like I said, there are people who are affected by this disability far more than I am and haven’t been awarded, whereas I got it on my first try.

There doesn’t seem any logic to it.

I obviously don’t understand how PIP works. On one hand we have people who have been awarded PIP, who are fully mobile and are able to work 40 hours a week.

On the other hand people who are not able to work, suffer constant pain, are unable to sleep at night ( because of constant pain/ breathing difficulties)leading to mental health problems but cannot claim PIP.) How does that work?

The very first question on form for PIP is “Can you prepare a meal for yourself?” If someone is able to get themselves up, out , and in work on time then obviously they can put a meal in the microwave right? Regardless if they are/not confined to a wheelchair.

Yet someone who suffers constant pain and cannot get out of bed for hours but is able to put a microwaveable meal in the microwave at whatever time is not eligible for PIP, because they can prepare a meal for themselves. Regardless of whether they are confined to a wheelchair. They can take a shower. But only when the time is right, after taking a shedload of painkillers.

Im completely baffled by the PIP system 🤷🏻‍♀️

How do people who successfully claim PIP and are fully mobile, and able to work, answer the question “Do you need help with self care skills”? Do you have a carer come round at stupid o clock to get you up, medicated, showered, dressed and chauffeured into work? The people I know, who are happy to let neighbours know they are claiming PIP are able bodied, able to get themselves fed, showered and in work by 8am. They are also able to get up on the roof and replace roof tiles.

It makes no sense. It is beyond belief that some people have restricted mobility, yet can’t afford to buy a wheelchair, but not eligible for extra financial support to help them live their rest of their lives in “some” comfort, yet others get everything on offer. Is there an art to claiming PIP? Should claimants not tell the truth about their situation? If everyone tells the truth how are there so many people claiming PIp when they are able to work 5 days a week, sit in a pub, drinking, from 11am, on weekends, lead a perfectly normal life on a day to day basis and convert their 2 bedroom house to a 4 bedroom house by building a two storey extension, by themselves, on weekends? How is this possible?

I am truly curious how some people are eligible to claim PiP, and are self sufficient yet others who suffer are not eligible for extra payment to help make their last years on Earth more comfortable???

Motability is a charity. Nothing to do with government - only pointing this out to thwart the posters getting ready to moan about the government giving people free cars. As this poster points out, the state pays those with the most severe mobility issues a higher rate of mobility allowance and they can then choose to pay this allowance to motability to lease a car.

In years of working on PIP appeals I have never once seen the DWP Decisionmaker not go with the assessor’s recommendation as to points awarded.

This is possibly the most ignorant post on the thread. PIP has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to work. It doesn’t assess capability to work, it assesses how well you can carry out a range of activities essential to daily living. And the examples you quote are beyond ridiculous and so profoundly insulting to anyone living with a disability, that it’s just absurd. You might want to do some voluntary work with the disabled to see how they really live, and how they benefit from PIP.

So how does someone who is able to get themselves out of bed, showered and in work by 8am able to to claim PIP when someone who cannot get out of bed, because they have been awake all night in pain, have no chance of working, because they are in constant pain is not eligible for PIP? I’d be extremely greatful if you could provide a simple explanation to my ridiculous question. I’ll pass it on to my dear sister who is contemplating ending her life due to relentless pain and inibility to afford to heat her one bedroom flat on basic Universal Credit. Thanks!

My son is nearly 21 and when he was 16 we had to make a claim for pip as he was
too old to claim DLA anymore.
one thing I don’t understand is why a person is classed as an adult at 16 for pip purposes and we all know how difficult it is to claim. Ds was receiving high rate care and low rate mobility on DLA for autism, anxiety and other issues and after attending a face to face assessment with me for support he was given a score of ZERO.
we obviously did a mandatory reconsideration and got nowhere so began the appeals process. This was in the June/July time and we were just waiting for an appeal date.

Fast forward to a week before Christmas and a letter appears from the DWP out of the blue saying “we have looked at your claim again and decided to award you 27 points” which meant enhanced for both and a large back pay. How on earth this came about I don’t know. It’s laughable to go from 0-27 points just like that and the original assessment was so inaccurate with several lies. I was his advocate and I was prepared to fight his corner. How many people just can’t face it and give up?

the system is flawed and is long overdue an overhaul. One question that seems to try and trip people up is “do you drive?” Which doesn’t always indicate that someone has care needs but is then used against them.

I have worked on pip applications and appeals since 2013 when it was introduced, and some of the decisions I’ve seen have actually gone with the claimants’ own medical evidence rather than the assessors’ report, and have resulted in an award/higher award. Same with some reconsideration decisions. I’ve also seen decision makers return assessment reports to the provider for review because of glaring inconsistencies with other evidence presented by the claimant, or where the assessor has actually contradicted themselves. I think it depends whether the decision maker actually cares about the quality of their decision, or is just a box ticker.

Once the DWP realise you are prepared to take your case to tribunal, they will review the case themselves when they receive the tribunal request for evidence and reasoning behind the decision. If it’s clear that they are going to lose at tribunal - for example if their evidence was flawed or the decision was unlawful, they will then reassess and award benefit backdated to the original date of application.

l remember a case where a severely disabled young man was migrated from DLA to PIP and went from enhanced rate DLA care and mobility, to a nil award for both on PIP. He lost his motability car, which almost cost him his job. The reconsideration request was turned down and we prepared for appeal, and at the same time I raised a complaint via his MP. Within a week he had a letter from DWP upholding his complaint, apologising for the distress he suffered as a result, cancelling the tribunal and doubling his points in both categories, resulting in an open ended award at the enhanced rates.

Then there was the lady who lost out on enhanced daily living by one point because the assessor decided she could sit on a perching stool at a kitchen counter top to cook unaided - despite the fact that she had full length rigid callipers on both legs. Rejected at reconsideration, but the extra point was awarded and tribunal proceedings cancelled once the DWP reviewed the (preposterous) decision before tribunal and it was clear they would lose.

It’s been clear for a long time that DWP rely on the fact that a lot of claimants will not fight even a glaringly wrong decision because they can’t face the appeal process. They will only re-examine such decisions when it becomes clear that the claimant is prepared to fight, and that DWP will likely lose.