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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

PIP

312 replies

Ostagazuzulum · 06/12/2023 23:28

I know this is going to be controversial. That's not my intention.

I want to stress that I'm not having a go at anyone who gets benefits. I'm just curious about pip and how it's justified.

One of my friends today has told me that they were recently approved for pip in higher scale. Going to be getting around £700 a month apparently. She doesn't claim any other benefits. She has fibromyalgia. Her and her husband both have middle management full time jobs earning around £80k per year between the pair of them. They own their own home and she's very open about having around £12k in savings. Three children all of school age.

They're intending on using the money for holidays mostly.

I'm just baffled how it's justified.

She definitely suffers with the condition, can sometimes struggle with mobility. and you can see she's in pain. But what's the purpose of pip? Her condition isn't incurring any extra costs and isn't being spent on day to day help. Why do we have it for those circumstances?

OP posts:
Mistletoeandwhiney · 06/12/2023 23:29

I thought this was going to be about Philip Schofield…where actually has he gone? And Holly?!

Sorry, op.

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:29

And posts like this are exactly why I never tell ANYONE in real life I get PIP (enhanced rates, ongoing award).

Original poster
Ostagazuzulum · 06/12/2023 23:30

It's not judgmental. I'm just curious about purpose of it. Sorry if it came across wrong.

OP posts:
NotAnotherPylon · 06/12/2023 23:36

You need to stop wondering and just be happy you don't have a chronic, debilitating condition. You might think you know everything about your friend's life, but you don't. DS2 gets DLA (old style PIP). I imagine people would wonder why if they saw him running around in the playground. But I know why and that's all that matters.

XenoBitch · 06/12/2023 23:37

YABU

First off, PIP is not means tested. David Cameron claimed it (DLA) for one of his disabled children. PIP/DLA is meant to put disabled people on a level playing field with non-disabled. Basically, your disabilities should not be costing you money, so the state will help with it.

PIP is based on needs, not a label/diagnosis. And being awarded for specific needs does not mean you have to spend the money on them. An example would be someone with agoraphobia being awarded because they can not leave the house alone. If they never leave the house, they will still get the money anyway. How it is spent is never checked up on.
But, some people on PIP do use it for day to day costs to do with their disability too. To differentiate between those who use the money "appropriately" and those who don't would add more red tape etc to the already complicated process. Far easier (and kinder) to say someone has xyz needs, so give them the money.

IGotItFromAgnes · 06/12/2023 23:39

Ostagazuzulum · 06/12/2023 23:30

It's not judgmental. I'm just curious about purpose of it. Sorry if it came across wrong.

It can be a gateway to other help / concessions.

Unfortunately there’s no other way to “prove” you’re disabled. Despite what’s often posted here and elsewhere, “registered disabled” isn’t a thing, other than for a couple of specific conditions.

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:39

Ostagazuzulum · 06/12/2023 23:30

It's not judgmental. I'm just curious about purpose of it. Sorry if it came across wrong.

Ok I’ll bite.

PIP is there to enhance the disabled persons life in whichever way they choose. It doesn’t have to be accounted for. It is their money to use as they wish in whatever way benefits them. If having a holiday or whatever benefits them and their health then that is absolutely fine. (Incidentally my lupus and asthma was the best it’s ever been on a week abroad last summer).

PIP isn’t means tested as the whole point is to provide support to disabled people of all walks of life so they are able to lead as independent a life as possible, as fully as possible as if they were not disabled.

Without living your friends life you don’t know what kind of struggles she’s having. To get enhanced rates of PIP she must have had substantial evidence and / or very good medical reports. It’s very difficult to get the top rates. She may downplay her condition to you - I know I do to those I know.

I am unable to work due to my conditions and so in my situation most of my PIP is swallowed up in household expenses but my dh works, and due to my previous high earning jobs and inheritance we own our home, no mortgage. We have a fancy motability car. We go on holiday. We lead the best life we can with the money we have - including money we’ve claimed and are entitled to, wouldn’t everyone?

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:41

If she has enhanced rate PIP for mobility she must have said she is restricted to mobilising 1-20m or less on the majority of days, and if she has enhanced for daily living needs, assistance to cook, wash and dress. Either it's pretty evident in her presentation or she's a fibber

jamimmi · 06/12/2023 23:42

PIP is hard to claim and I would think your friend probably has many more issues than you see. Possibly help with cleaning/ childcare thay she wouldn't normally need, or other support. DH claims, he uses it to provide for services he should but can't get on the NHS like chiropodist appointments and our cleaner as his disability and me working full.time means he needs my support for things not cleaning when I'm home.

Viviennemary · 06/12/2023 23:45

But she does have a genuine disability. Not sure what your complaint is.

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:46

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:41

If she has enhanced rate PIP for mobility she must have said she is restricted to mobilising 1-20m or less on the majority of days, and if she has enhanced for daily living needs, assistance to cook, wash and dress. Either it's pretty evident in her presentation or she's a fibber

Edited

That’s just not true. It’s a bit more complex than that. Lots of people with lupus and bladder issues like me get enhanced mobility because we need to be near a toilet / near the car etc / have days where we’re in terrible pain etc but it’s not as cut and dry as can’t walk xxxx amount of time etc - I was completely honest on my forms and my rheumatologist did a lengthy report for me. I didn’t have an assessment because my medical evidence was overwhelming. I don’t need assistance to wash or cook unless it’s a particularly dreadful day or I’m suffering with side effects from the 22 medications I take.

INeedAnotherName · 06/12/2023 23:48

@IGotItFromAgnes - It can be a gateway to other help / concessions.

Do you know what those are (or a link to them)? TIA

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:48

@Pigeonqueen

It is indeed true.

'In the PIP assessment, a descriptor will apply to you if it reflects your ability for the majority of days (ie on over half of them)'

From Disability Rights UK.

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:50

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:48

@Pigeonqueen

It is indeed true.

'In the PIP assessment, a descriptor will apply to you if it reflects your ability for the majority of days (ie on over half of them)'

From Disability Rights UK.

Edited

And I know it’s not because I have an indefinite/ ongoing award for the highest rates of PIP and that is not how my form was assessed. And indeed many others with the same conditions as me have had the same outcome with the same issues. There is some flexibility in how they assess the forms, even if they claim there isn’t.

Drdoomish · 06/12/2023 23:51

How did she manage to get it? My friend has ME. Took her ages and over a month's worth of her energy (so didn't go out) researching what gave her the best chance at being successful at getting PIP.

I attended her interview with her. She was honest. She shared his limiting her life is. (E.g. she needs a 2 hour rest after a 10 min shower)

She didn't get PIP. The report the decision was based on was incorrect (e.g. she attended the interview alone). She didn't have energy to go through the process again and fight the incorrect decision, due to her disability. She wouldn't let me try on her behalf, as that would still take it out of her.

She's existing on a tiny amount, as she's too ill to work. She has high outgoings from the diet costs of improving her ME and a higher fuel cost to make her ME tolerable. I give her money most months to make up her short fall.

So I ask again, how did she succeed in getting the payment? I'm all ears.

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:52

@Pigeonqueen

And I know it is because I have professional experience of assisting with hundreds of claims, it's even in the PIP Handbook which contains all the rules and criteria.

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:53

INeedAnotherName · 06/12/2023 23:48

@IGotItFromAgnes - It can be a gateway to other help / concessions.

Do you know what those are (or a link to them)? TIA

Carers allowance - depending on the level of the PIP and income of the person trying to claim it
Free carers ticket to days out / attractions and reduced main ticket for the disabled person
Access to the motability scheme for those in receipt of high rate mobility component
Some water and energy companies offer reduced rates for PIP customers
CEA card for cinema to get a free carers ticket
Disabled rail card for a third of rail travel

There are other things but these are just the ones off the top of my head.

Pussygaloregalapagos · 06/12/2023 23:54

Surely like with Agraphobia you would save money as you wouldn’t pay for transport, meals out holidays etc…..

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:55

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:52

@Pigeonqueen

And I know it is because I have professional experience of assisting with hundreds of claims, it's even in the PIP Handbook which contains all the rules and criteria.

Edited

Ok. We will have to agree to disagree. I am familiar with the handbook.

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:56

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:55

Ok. We will have to agree to disagree. I am familiar with the handbook.

Show quote history

Clearly not.

Willyoujustbequiet · 06/12/2023 23:57

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:52

@Pigeonqueen

And I know it is because I have professional experience of assisting with hundreds of claims, it's even in the PIP Handbook which contains all the rules and criteria.

Edited

No. @Pigeonqueen is correct.

You can get high mobility without saying you are restricted 20 m or more etc..because there is another descriptor.

IGotItFromAgnes · 06/12/2023 23:57

INeedAnotherName · 06/12/2023 23:48

@IGotItFromAgnes - It can be a gateway to other help / concessions.

Do you know what those are (or a link to them)? TIA

I meant things like carers tickets (some places are using the Nimbus cards now), disabled person’s railcard, there are a couple of groups locally which are limited to people who are “registered disabled”, there might be still some things around utility bills (haven’t looked recently)

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:58

@Willyoujustbequiet

This is with regards to the 'majority of days'.

The other descriptor you are talking about though on mobility would cover conditions where you need assistance to go out due to MH/seizures/vision problems etc.

Copperoliverbear · 06/12/2023 23:59

Pip is a benefit that is not means tested, that's why she can receive it no matter what she earns.

Pigeonqueen · 06/12/2023 23:59

Floralsofa · 06/12/2023 23:56

Clearly not.

Show quote history

I know what the handbook says. I am in several health forums, all with thousands of members and I help advise people about PIP. Lots of people - like me - fill in the forms as honestly as possible; with the support of reports from health professionals, and get the rates you are saying we don’t get. So how does that work? I’m not going to come on a forum anonymously and lie for the sake of it. I do think a lot of assessors take the whole picture into account - the conditions, prescriptions, likelihood of things getting worse and give points based on this for the sections. And perhaps they shouldn’t if you want to argue that but the forms aren’t designed well for certain conditions. We all know the opposite scenario is all to common when people should be awarded points and they’re not.