PIP

[Ostagazuzulum]

I know this is going to be controversial. That's not my intention.

I want to stress that I'm not having a go at anyone who gets benefits. I'm just curious about pip and how it's justified.

One of my friends today has told me that they were recently approved for pip in higher scale. Going to be getting around £700 a month apparently. She doesn't claim any other benefits. She has fibromyalgia. Her and her husband both have middle management full time jobs earning around £80k per year between the pair of them. They own their own home and she's very open about having around £12k in savings. Three children all of school age.

They're intending on using the money for holidays mostly.

I'm just baffled how it's justified.

She definitely suffers with the condition, can sometimes struggle with mobility. and you can see she's in pain. But what's the purpose of pip? Her condition isn't incurring any extra costs and isn't being spent on day to day help. Why do we have it for those circumstances?

@Drdoomish well then she could do it every other day, or every third day. In time it will be done. Once done assuming she gets the award (which is likely given your description) then she will be able to use that money to make her life easier.

@Pussygaloregalapagos my daughter ended up with horrendous agoraphobia at 15. It sounds like your tone is mocking to me. In fact they don't end up spending less because they are desperately trying to have some sort of life. So she had to get a hairdresser that would come to the house ( more expensive) , she bought clothes on line to fit in with friends, when slightly better she still had to pay for taxi as couldn't walk around the streets.

In terms of the op not being judgemental that is absolutely bollocks. Of course you are. Perhaps your friend is incontinent. Are you so egotistical that you know everything about her life? It's envy and you need to let it go.

Nonsense. There are 2 descriptors for PIP, only one relates to the ability to walk, the other relates to the ability to plan and follow a journey.

PIP regs also specify that you must be able to do an activity safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly, and within a reasonable time period, so if someone gets panic attacks when out alone, they may not meet the "safely" test for planning and following a journey, or if they can only walk slowly, or walk the relevant distance once and are then too knackered to do it again for a couple of days, they'll get awarded points.

Sorry, that should have read "2 descriptors for mobility".

But where would you draw the line? Many of us find that pip doesn't actually cover our costs.

And no pip means things like no blue badge for certain people, no discounted tickets, etc.

I work in welfare rights. Even with years of experience, my team only has a success rate of around 40-45% when it comes to PIP applications. But we appeal almost every refusal and have a success rate in excess of 98% at appeals.

If PIP was easy to get, our success rate at appeals would be much lower. More than half our applications wouldn't be wrongly refused. And it makes me wonder how many people who don't appeal because they don't know how or find the process too daunting would actually succeed if they appealed and if they had help from a benefits specialist.

Well everything that is means tested has a line drawn doesn’t it. Like child benefit. It wouldn’t be impossible to agree a certain income above which it is deemed that you don’t need state assistance. Would you be happy for Rishi Sunak’s billionaire wife to get some of your taxes to put towards her heating bill if she had a qualifying health condition? Especially if it meant there was less available for someone with the same condition who earned minimum wage?

But additional costs can be huge and push somebody on an ok salary into struggling. The costs ripple out massively before you even look at loss of earnings for carers.And the whole point of disability support is to make things equal ie somebody in an ok salary should not be impacted and held back more than somebody on an equal salary.

He did yes for his disabled son who I believe has now sadly died.

There is no cap.

I don't believe it should be means tested. I mean they've just given hundreds to millionaire pensioners afterall. However I do feel that a person in his position was morally wrong to claim it. Help should be targeted at those who need it.

I think it’s a bit like saying “shouldn’t education be means tested”?

Yeah but things aren’t equal are they, because if they were, then Richard Branson would be obliged to give me some of his money! It seems bizarre for governments to say that things need to be equal, but then allow many inequalities to exist.

And what about equality between the people who get PIP? If someone on minimum wage gets PIP, it might make them equal to someone else on minimum wage who doesn’t have a disability. But it doesn’t take them anywhere near Rishi Sunak’s family. If the billionaires didn’t claim their PIP, then there’d be more in the pot for the minimum wagers. So equality is nowhere near achieved. If it was means tested there’d be more money available for the people who would really notice it.

Isnt the form online now? I found that much easier to fill in.

Naff off OP. Your sort of judgement is exactly why I don’t tell people either and I’m not going to justify it online. However, please have my PIP but you have to have my epilepsy as well. If a few quid means that much to you then take it. It will mean that you can’t drive, can’t be left unsupervised to have a bath (just to name a couple) But hey, go for it.

Education isn’t money, it’s education. People use the state school system for many reasons, not just because they can’t afford private school. So you couldn’t ever had a system that said above a certain income people couldn’t access state schools.

PIP/DLA are paid purely on health grounds, and not on income/savings. Millionaire David Cameron (justifiably) claimed it for his disabled son.

Many on those benefits work. It is to pay for the extra costs of disability.

Fibro is very painful - don’t envy someone with it.

*I actually do have two chronic debilitating conditions. One which is serious. I'm lucky enough to have a stable job so financially I'm managing.

Thanks for the judgment though 🙄*

Well it's hardly judgement, is it? I made an assumption, based on the scant information your post. I assumed your life must be free of significant health issues as you sounded so crashingly ignorant of the potentially debilitating nature of someone else's illness. You have decided that you don't need to apply for PIP because you earn enough money to live on. That's great. But it doesn't mean your 'friend' is wrong.

I use some of my pip for a holiday. There's a firework display near me once a year for a few nights. I struggle with loud and sudden noise. I go away for a few nights to get some peace.

Whoooahhh this is unnecessarily aggressive. I'm NOT judging you. I have a condition. Myself which is extremely debilitating and impactive and I wouldn't wish in anyone. I'm not saying it's worse than you but please don't tell me about being judgmental when you've made presumptions. This thread has given me a much better empathetic understanding and I'm grateful. I regret posting it as Immy ignorance and lack of understanding us upset some but truthfully reading through I think I get it a lot better.

I still think it should be capped for millionaires etc. there's a lot of people in this country doing without and a couple of hundred quid extra could mean alot to some when really do the likes of millionaires need that cash when they likely get more than that a month interest?

Well in that vein we could say support for disabled people isn’t money and give them the support they need to level the playing field. We’ve chosen to do it this way, I would imagine primarily because it’s cheaper.

As a general comment, I don’t think we tax the highest earners enough. And I mean those in the multi millionaire bracket. All that money could be pumped back into the NHS / public services which would help society as a whole. But then I guess you get into the whole communism type debate - does it incentivise people to work less / do less if we take more to make things more equal? Making PIP available to everyone acknowledges that having a disability makes anyone’s life more difficult, even if you’re incredibly rich.

I don’t think there’s an easy answer to any of it really.

I don’t think disability benefits or education or health or the legal system or the cost of roads and waste disposal etc should be means tested. Income tax already sorts that out.

www.scope.org.uk/campaigns/extra-costs/disability-price-tag-2023/

This Scope article clearly explains the additional costs of disability. Hth

MumblesParty

And we all know it would the squeezed middle impacted the most.

We are on an ok wage and my dd gets enhanced pip. Her costs are massive even before loss of earnings from the ok salary and impact on our careers and additional costs to us. Most of her pip covers things like her hugely expensive food, heating, travel, MH costs alone. So you can look at our ok income but it’s actually hugely less due to additional costs, loss of earnings etc on top. I’m paying £300 a month alone for therapy for me so I can keep going and not crumble, going unpaid 1 day next week due to appointments( some times with long periods of hospitalisation we’ve lost far more), then there are additional travel costs and parking fees during hospitalisation etc etc. We have to fund our son through uni because the thresholds for full loans are so low. Without her pip contribution he wouldn’t be at uni end of and his life has already been impacted hugely by her conditions.

Totally agree. I would happily hand over the Pip money if it meant my life limited son could hand over his condition.
It takes one car accident, one bad illness, one slip on the stairs and anyone could end up with life long illness, disability.
The world would be so much easier if people would stop being so bloody judgemental over the sake of a few hundred pounds ( which trust me doesn’t cover the extra costs involved in my sons condition)

Not judgemental…..ok then.