To ask for help regarding family Christmas things .. need thoughts!

[Notoldeeally]

So we have an issue about christmas!
last year we had a stressful time as we did not know when our adult dd s were leaving .. ( with partners) .. they ended up staying 10 days.

Now , i know they are our kids but its not the same when they bring partners .

We live in a modest 3 bed .

We are in our 60 s .. retired professionals with limited income . No state pension yet.

There are two issues

1. lenght of stay .Dd is always reluctant to make firm plans . She likes to think this is still her home and as such can stay as long as she wants. At christmas last year she would not say how long she wanted to stay , just saying oh I might want the new year here too . we found 10 days just too long , especially as partner with her.How to limit the lenght of stay. I was thinking 6 nights not ten this year,but this would mean them not being here for new year.. and they always want to be here for that too. They live a 4 hour drive away.. so want to stay for duration . We live in a seaside town and alternative accommodation like a house nearby would be great but its v v expensive.
2. activities ! When we are just watching tv or reading she says .. so what are we doing next .. i tell her oh we dont have to do anything, lets just chill .. but she seems to need structure .. so can we olay a game tonight , can we all watch a film.. ten nights of organised nights( as well as an organised thing like a walk for us all) exhausted us and we domt want to do it again. We repeatedly said games some nights but chill others , but she seems to have a fixation that we all need to be doing together!! Most if the time. She gets angry if we suggest otherwise.she seems to think us having a bit of soace is an insult to her , when it isnt .. she says things like well we should make the most of our time.how to tell her in a way she can hear???? Last Christmas was so exhausting and ended up with dh really really tense. we want to change it this year by being proactive and gently firm .. but we know dd will most likely be upset at this and also that there is a time limit as she thinks the oarental home is always open …and i get why she thinks that but we cant be that exhausted again. Any tips on how to say things much appreciated( I just know if we time limit she will say .. but if we only stay … so long.. what about new year.. i want to be here at new year too) I know we dont sound assertive but we dont want upset dd .. with our ds he takes time out goes for walks .. allows a bit of breathing soace.. with dd not so and its just how she is and has been since she was small .

They are able to entertain selves yes .. but have the image of family… being together.

id love to sit near and say read , but i just can’t concentrate and read with tv on or people chatting .. it doesn’t work .

Do they seem happy, as a couple?

It occurs to me that maybe there are problems within the relationship and one or both of them finds it stressful being at home, just the two of them, during a long break from work?

(Though that would not explain their apparent inability to understand that two professionals in well paying jobs should not be freeloading on retired parents who are having to watch the pennies.)

Are they monopolising the only bathroom OP, or do they have their own bathroom and use some discretion? If it's the family bathroom you and/or your husband needs to talk to them.

Also your later post re you being unable to concentrate on your book when other people are watching TV or speaking closely, perhaps investigate noise cancelling headphones. She/they might object but if they want you close by in the same space perhaps that might be a reasonable compromise? 🌹

Hi OP,
When I was about the same age as your dd, my Mum made some significant changes to Christmas. She let us all know very cheerfully and practically, and in a way which meant there was no discussion.

So she said things like - As you are all adults now, we are going to share the load a bit, so can you let me know what you are bringing, and then I can buy the rest. Then she had a shopping list to choose from:
eg cheese board (good to specify how many cheeses and how much of each) desserts (again spell it out) mince pies, who is bringing the Christmas cake? Wine? Baileys?
You get the idea.

Then as people arrived (she hosted about 16 people for 4 days over Christmas), on Christmas Eve she started giving out jobs. Peel the carrots or do the sprouts? Empty the dishwasher or take the rubbish out?
My uncle etc turned up at about 4pm Christmas Eve and was given a gin and tonic and a potato peeler.
The first year everyone was a bit taken aback, but my mum was jolly and cheerful about it and stuck a bottle of wine on the table etc. And we all got stuck in.
So we did ALL the Christmas dinner prep the day before.

I think you need to be really proactive with your kids.
Tell them Christmas will be different.
Give them a list of things to bring.
Tell them that THEY are cooking on 27th and 29th, and ask them to shop and cook for it.
Make a timetable of days - block out chill zone times when there is NO requirement to entertain.

They will kick back, to which the reply is feel free to go to bf parents, or feel free to host it yourself.

I think if you focus on chore and financial contribution, you'll find duration will naturally sort itself out.

@Notoldeeally it's just a bit of give and take and also being ok with her being annoyed with you.
Decide on the non negotiable's like food, contributing, Jobs. Have those discussions up front. Include them all in an email- DS as well- and carve up days and duties.
And give yourself permission to just be.
And try and relax....

If my son wanted to have a bath with his girlfriend I would laugh. Sorry. You are allowed to say no to things and not just go along with everything. It's still the family home not a knocking shop (that's what my Nan would have said) I wasn't even allowed to share a bed pre marriage and I was expecting.....

I think sometimes we can be too accommodating. It's ok to be you :)

@steppemum your ma sounds ace and your advice is post on!

she is 😁

I do think that there is a point where we have to sit up and realise that we are adults and that we need to shift that dynamic with our parents.
If she isn't doing it naturally then she needs a gentle push.

But the key here is not giving in to emotional drama roudn it, but keep it practical.
Sorry you feel that way darling but I can't do all the cooking anymore, so, what are you bringing? Could you and bf buy the booze? We'll need xxx bottles.

I don’t think this is particularly appropriate in a small family house situation with your parents present. Your dd sounds very insensitive op.
It’s the sort of activity better

reserved for when you go on couples holiday together to a spa.

The body-doubling thing: does your dd have a diagnosis? Is she ND or ASD? (Please don’t flame me everyone. I know some people who are ND or ASD are hyper-sensitive to others and just bc you have that diagnosis doesn’t automatically mean you are rude or insensitive, it can be quite the opposite sometimes, however it might explain why the dd isn’t picking up hints from her mother.)

This is definitely a conversation you need to be having with your daughter and her boyfriend as soon as possible, and not the week before Christmas or after they've arrived.
If you're doing it via telephone write down a list of expectations - cooking, financial, timescale etc so that you don't get thrown off track by temper tantrums or emotional blackmail - your daughter sounds emotionally immature and her boyfriend sounds self entitled.
If its via text, spell it out as bullet points.
I would also have a back up plan for if they agree to everything but then backtrack once they arrive, particularly if they are as tight with spending money as you have implied.
The last thing you need is to be at a checkout queue with a laden trolley, only for your daughter or her boyfriend to have ''accidentally'' left their wallets behind.
If you're going to create boundaries/expectation you really do have to stick to them.

Yes agree. Nearly everyone is having to cut back on something this year be it heating, food, presents, entertainment. It's a fact of life. People who don't see that or who don't want to see it are living in a bubble. Tell them Christmas this year will be different and help will be needed and contributions WILL be expected. Let them know now so they can begin to put money aside or start to buy food and drink. Tell them for example you and DH will lay on everything for Christmas Day and DD and her DP can be responsible for Boxing Day. DS can do Christmas Eve etc. Make it clear before you set out anywhere that you and DH will pay for yourselves but the others must pay for themselves. You don't need to give them any reasons or excuses such as saving for a holiday just tell them this is how it is. Also let them know they will be leaving on the 27th as you will be tired by then.

They way i would approach it is as someone suggested; decide what YOU want from this time period, make your own plans, and share them, included within that i would have a method of escape; your bedroom if all else fails and state quite frankly that you are going to your room for a period of time (an hour/more) and you'll be back to the group later; not that you don't cherish family time, not that you don't appreciate their company - everyone needs their space. Its very selfish & entitled of her to monopolise peoples time, everyone has different characters, as you mention you and DH are introverts your social batteries will diminish; yet she assumes that she can just demand your undivided attention 24/7 would have me spitting feathers in all honesty; she would be told in no uncertain terms that although i love her dearly, i want some time and space on a daily basis to myself.

She wants the whole days to be planned and scripted yet she cant say when she is leaving - er no. She would be told when the trip starts and finishes, its your house; you set those boundaries. If that means the 24th to the 27th so be it.

Be firm, be strong.

If she so desperately wants to have the family Christmas; why doesn't she host? Or split the trip - she comes to you for Christmas, then goes - and you go to her for NYE?

Interesting to see a few people saying 'OMG SHE'S YOUR DAUGHTER YOU SHOULD BE GRATEFUL SHE WANTS TO SPEND TIME WITH YOU HOW CAN YOU NOT WANT HER IN YOUR HOUSE YOU ARE A TERRIBLE MOTHER'. What an absolute pile of bollocks. The OP clearly loves her adult kids but just doesn't want a house full of them for 10 full days, at her expense and with the expectation that she will entertain them. It's really rude of the DD to not even say how long she wants to stay for. What if the OP wants to make plans to do things with friends at some point or whatever? What if she just wants an evening where she doesn't have to keep finding things for her adult daughter to do?!

Imagine if it was this way round:

"We're hosting my parents for Christmas, but we can't get them to commit to how long they're actually going to stay. We're happy to have them but last time they stayed ten days and it was just exhausting, especially for my partner as obviously it's harder when it's not your own parents. Also, they can't just chill and do their own thing. Every night/day they're asking what we're going to do and wanting to be entertained with things like games nights. We don't have a big house or a huge income either, and it's expensive catering for them for ten days. AIBU to invite them for three or four days and then expect them to do their own thing so we can have a bit of time to see our friends or just relax in our PJs without worrying about having to entertain?"

I am pretty sure 99% of people would reply to say 'Of course YANBU, 10 days is a really long time and it's mad that they want to be entertained for the whole duration, plus they're CFs if they never offer to host/cook/pay for anything themselves'.

Just reading through your follow-up posts.

I'll be blunt: your daughter and her partner sound like a pair of absolute horrors. Everything you've said about your daughter suggests that she is selfish, spoilt, rude, aggressive and clingy and doesn't give a shit about anyone but herself. Her boyfriend is tighter than a duck's arsehole and also doesn't have any social skills.

You and your DH are just enabling their bullshit but letting yourself be walked all over. Your daughter is a giant whining baby who needs to grow the fuck up.

don;t hold back there 😂

Nothing will change unless you change it. Your selfish daughter and her downright rude boyfriend are taking liberties. You have to let them know that you are not ok with it, otherwise you'll have many more years of it ahead of you.
And personally I wouldn't worry about treating both your children the same. If she complains that she can only stay for 6 days (even that's excessive in my books), but her brother can stay for 10, then explain that's because he pulls his weight and contributes and she doesn't.

Oh and knock that taking a bath together nonsense right on the head. They can do that in their own house, not yours.

Does your son bring a partner too? How do they behave?

Anything more than three nights is too much. Six nights is a very generous level of hospitality. Ten nights is sheer lunacy.

You are preparing and paying for a very lovely Xmas for them if course they won't want it to change. That they don't treat you to a lovely meal or bring a hamper of treats at the very least is really shameful.

When I was 24, I cooked Xmas dinner for my family and we started to rotate it each year as I had my own home and partner. It shocked me how much it cost and how much effort it took. I didn't want my mum and dad to have to do that. My parents also enjoyed having a few days to themselves.

Your daughter doesn't get to tell you how long they are staying, they do not have baths together in your house (how uncomfortable for you!) and they take responsibility for at least one meal from the three nights they stay even if it is just buying a takeaway. They are taking the piss and are not good house guests.

Your son is a separate issue. He doesn't want as much and is a decent house guest. Three nights over Xmas all together and then they can go and enjoy their own home and make their own traditions. Save the money for a lovely holiday!

About the shared bath .. what do i say ?!

Do you mind not having a bath together in our house as it makes us very uncomfortable?

If you don't want to say anything, you could just say you and your DH were going to go and enjoy a luxurious, long bath together. Then see how they react 🤣

tell them you're going away, make their own plans!

Have a conversation with them - just say ten days is too much, you found last year way too stressful -and expensive, and set a limit on how long they can stay.
And sod organising activities - if they regard it as 'home' they shouldn't require to be hosted in the same way as if they're guests.
If "D"D wants an activity, tell her what meal she is preparing for supper. (or to launder the bed linen before she leaves)

This thread is getting odd.

Sorry op if you are genuine. You have had lots of good advice. Time to put it in to practice and just have a chat with your daughter. If you feel uncomfortable on your own have a group chat on WhatsApp, invite your dh, and your ds and his partner to join (brief them in advance) and set out your terms. Ask them to set the tone by volunteering to bring some cheese and wine and offering to cook some meals. Your dd and her bf can’t get away with so much cheekiness if everyone knows what’s what and what’s expected.

she seems angry at me very quickly but wants to be with us a lot .

Even though you will have a leaving date arranged, the first time that she has a hissy fit, say "you're clearly unhappy here, please leave"

I think you're being a bit precious here. It's Christmas and you're so, so lucky that she wants to spend time with you. You don't work so how tired can you actually get, you'll have the rest of the year to catch up on sleep.

It sounds like she wants lots of structure so play her at her own game and structure in breaks for you guys/nights where you don't cook or host them.

Monday- walk and pub in the afternoon- chill time in the evening with you and Dad cooking
Tuesday- puzzle and mulled wine in the afternoon- DD/partner cooking and cleaning up that evening
Wednesday- free time to clean and chill/read- DD and partner to sort out own dinner

Etc etc

Make the effort to plan some nice things from your part but also make the expectation clear that DD needs to play ball too.

"You don't work so how tired can you actually get, you'll have the rest of the year to catch up on sleep."

I'm afraid the OP's DD and her BF because of her clinginess and their unwillingness to pitch in with cooking and chores sound very tiring to be around, irrespective of what age you are or whether you are retired or not.