To ask for help regarding family Christmas things .. need thoughts!

[Notoldeeally]

So we have an issue about christmas!
last year we had a stressful time as we did not know when our adult dd s were leaving .. ( with partners) .. they ended up staying 10 days.

Now , i know they are our kids but its not the same when they bring partners .

We live in a modest 3 bed .

We are in our 60 s .. retired professionals with limited income . No state pension yet.

There are two issues

1. lenght of stay .Dd is always reluctant to make firm plans . She likes to think this is still her home and as such can stay as long as she wants. At christmas last year she would not say how long she wanted to stay , just saying oh I might want the new year here too . we found 10 days just too long , especially as partner with her.How to limit the lenght of stay. I was thinking 6 nights not ten this year,but this would mean them not being here for new year.. and they always want to be here for that too. They live a 4 hour drive away.. so want to stay for duration . We live in a seaside town and alternative accommodation like a house nearby would be great but its v v expensive.
2. activities ! When we are just watching tv or reading she says .. so what are we doing next .. i tell her oh we dont have to do anything, lets just chill .. but she seems to need structure .. so can we olay a game tonight , can we all watch a film.. ten nights of organised nights( as well as an organised thing like a walk for us all) exhausted us and we domt want to do it again. We repeatedly said games some nights but chill others , but she seems to have a fixation that we all need to be doing together!! Most if the time. She gets angry if we suggest otherwise.she seems to think us having a bit of soace is an insult to her , when it isnt .. she says things like well we should make the most of our time.how to tell her in a way she can hear???? Last Christmas was so exhausting and ended up with dh really really tense. we want to change it this year by being proactive and gently firm .. but we know dd will most likely be upset at this and also that there is a time limit as she thinks the oarental home is always open …and i get why she thinks that but we cant be that exhausted again. Any tips on how to say things much appreciated( I just know if we time limit she will say .. but if we only stay … so long.. what about new year.. i want to be here at new year too) I know we dont sound assertive but we dont want upset dd .. with our ds he takes time out goes for walks .. allows a bit of breathing soace.. with dd not so and its just how she is and has been since she was small .

How did the conversation / message exchange go OP?

Is there a likelihood that they agreed now but they'll push their luck in reality, especially by staying longer than the 7 days? I.e. just not leaving?

This sounds like my house over Christmas & new year!
3 ADC 3 partners and 3 grandchildren ages 3.5 & 7 🤦🏻‍♀️ all stay over all of us on the go the whole time and me cooking 🤣 We all go shopping together and they all pick up what they want to eat for the duration they’re with me for, paid for by me, but I do budget for it and save during the year
it’s once a year , so I go along with it, make up for my missed sleep when they’ve gone home and then I’m back to work 🤦🏻‍♀️

SeulementUneFois it was met with initial .. does this mean we cant be their at .. I said yes .. these are the times ./ dates .

Yes ut did occur to me that when it gets to the time they may ask to extend. .. like the day before .

I have not got round to any strategy for this as yet.

Have been focusing on the initial stuff.. but aware I need to plan .. it would feel awful to ask them to go but I would … it would undo the boundaries not to .
I am also concerned that if the train is used there would be a rail strike! . So need to check web site s re this .

Following closely, please do update as I have similar with one of my adult children. In my heart I have an open house and the door is always open, but my god can she overstay her welcome, for hours, for days.
A couple of times I have managed to head off long loose plans with a ‘that doesn’t work for me’, but the sheer obliviousness ( is that a word?) .

Tistheseasontobejollytrala course!
I really like how you described in your heart its an open house.. but that stay too long .
I wonder if , even tho have own home ( and have not hosted beyond one night) , they dont realise hiw hard it can be hosting especially when we make ut clear we are pleased to see them .. which of course we are … just not for so long !
I also think they come for a rest, to ‘ home ‘ to be looked after .. natural buy again means we are doing all the caring and nurture which can take a lot of energy after a few days.. them not realising this has probably led them to want to stay for extended periods and led to my massive anxiety about saying that i want my own house back now. .. and struggled to say this does not suit me . .. as i fear it will hurt feelings and also because i will be asked why .. its a contradiction.. you need space but also in my head its an open door as its yr dc …?

I remember wanting to go ‘ home’ when I was this age , and know the feeling, but I never stayed longer tah two nights .

@Notoldeeally it's a start :) and your right. If you don't stick to your boundaries it's all the hard-work undone.

@Tistheseasontobejollytrala I think you need to get in front of it. 'How long are you staying?' Etc and not let them be wishy-washy. I know it's hard. I have three and pinning them down to anything is impossible.

At that age, I cannot imagine having a joint bath in my boyfriend's parent's house. However, on the positive side, sharing bathwater saves on your heating bills and if you are on a water meter, on your water bill, too!

@Notoldeeally I am glad that you have a plan and wish you strength in following through.

Sorry if this has been covered in the thread but it sounds to me like your daughter (apart from loads of other things!), has a very immature attitude towards you and your role and your house.

You know when you are a child and you don't even think about how your parents afford to pay for food, heating, school uniform etc etc? It's as though she thinks right, "this is my parents' house, therefore this is my house and I am entitled to be there any time I like. Whilst there I am entitled to have all my needs met and paid for."

It's like a massive version of not realising that it might be nice when you are an adult that you could pay for your parents' meal in a restaurant sometimes, rather than always being the child.

Have you let her know about the dates yet? I hope your language is clear and you aren't asking her permission or opinion!

Also, again, like a child maybe she has no concept of how you may be struggling to afford an expensive Christmas. I would spell it out. She may understand that she goes on holidays but you can't afford to and it may get through her selfish skull that you would like not to spend quite so much so that you can have a holiday too!!

Well done for confronting the issues and laying down boundaries.
I do wonder if, when he time comes to leave, they'll just stay put though.
I think it'll be very interesting as to what your daughter's partner chooses to cook when it's his turn to buy the food, especially as you say he's tight with money, begrudges buying anything, yet expected you to cater to his very expensive, high protein, high meat diet when he isn't paying himself.
I imagine high protein, high end meat will not make an appearance at his family meal when he's - hopefully - footing the bill!

Ive cited the col and ut seems to have hit home . I agree . I recall wanting to go ‘ home ‘ sometimes as a young adult and wanting to surrender all my newly acquired responsibilities.. so I think its in part that and I get it . However , I would do that for 2 days only .

OP, well done for starting to set boundaries. Practice saying
• “we love you but we need a break from hosting”
• “please can you take turns cooking, washing up and paying for meals out?”
• “we need to save our money and hosting adds up”

You need to reset the relationship. Your daughter is not a child anymore.

You know when you are a child and you don't even think about how your parents afford to pay for food, heating, school uniform etc etc? It's as though she thinks right, "this is my parents' house, therefore this is my house and I am entitled to be there any time I like. Whilst there I am entitled to have all my needs met and paid for."

It's like a massive version of not realising that it might be nice when you are an adult that you could pay for your parents' meal in a restaurant sometimes, rather than always being the child.

^^ I think this is spot on Chamomileteaplease

Op’s dd has not yet made the developmental leap of seeing her parents as separate individuals to her with different needs.

Op please make sure that you set out the terms clearly again face to face when they arrive. They will need reminding again by then. Don’t be timid. Prepare yourself for the fact that they may not like you for standing firm but tell yourself “that’s ok”. And in reality, it IS ok to be disliked for a while. Try and get comfortable with it. And remind them again the day before they are due to leave. And if they object, use “I” statements, very clearly and calmly with your shoulders back “I’m afraid that doesn’t work for your father and I”, “No, your father and I need a rest now”, “your father and I prefer shorter visits nowadays”. Don’t apologise further and don’t over explain or placate.

If you possibly can, get a tradesman booked on the day after they leave, just in case!

RhiWrites
ues practice is good ! As its new to us !
need to also practice motivating to go the day before .. like will you be leaving just aft lunch or shall i make you food for journey .. etc

I’ve not read all the replies, but could you enlist the help of ds to spend some quality time with his sister? Maybe speak to him privately and explain about feeling tired etc, could he entertain her a couple of evenings?

Otherwise you’ll just have to say we are doing nothing tonight if you want to pop out and catch up with old friends or something.

"...or shall i make you food for journey .. etc"

Again, if they did want some food for the journey, why do you have to be the one that makes it?

Why can't they make some sandwiches or whatever for themselves?

I remember your thread from last year and it’s time for you to put your foot down. If she gets angry, tell her she is hosting next year but you’ll only stay 2 nights. If she wants to extend, you tell her, reiterate that you said these dates and you meant it. ‘We need a break from hosting, plus we simply don’t have the money’. Is she aware of how little you have compared to her? She sounds hugely inconsiderate. It isn’t her childhood home, it’s not like she has a sentimental attachment. If you don’t want her there when you aren’t, tell her!

If you’re in the pub, you say ‘Rounds’ before you go so there’s no expectation that you pay for all the drinks.

Re the having sex in the bath, be brave and tell her it’s your house, not hers and it frankly makes you uncomfortable, could they please not do that. It’s a small 3 bed house, it’s pretty obvious and demonstrates a massive lack of consideration. Can’t they restrain themselves?!

Definitely mention col and how you only have limited funds (compared to them). Tell them the cost of last year and say you’re having a romantic UK break next year and you can’t afford to fund 4 others for 7 days. I think it’s disgusting, actually, that they’re not bringing/buying at least half of the food/booze/shopping. Ideally, discuss everything before she comes. Save up and be away next year and no, they can’t stay while you’re away!

I’m angry on your behalf, given the sheer cf of her and her partner, but I think she has attachment issues (I’m no psychologist , but saying what she was like as a child is telling). Is/was she the eldest/only child for a while?

Stop it! ‘Are you stopping en route home for lunch? There’s a lovely pub just off the A38.’ I say this nicely, @Notoldeeally but stop being such a doormat! Their lack of contribution/overstaying would drive me nuts! And don’t let cheeky fucker partner take food! If he tries, tell him that is for your dinner!

👏👏👏 brilliant op! And role play it, however mad that sounds!

I hope that they take notice of you ,I feel angry on your behalf.
But i get the feeling that your dd is a bully and that you seem to be afraid of her,
Can your dh back you up in a strong manner?
If the idea of 'rounds' in the pub is ignored and they sit waiting for you to buy the next round, get your coat on and come home.

Well done OP!
As you're concerned she would gradually extend their stay, I would follow up with an email stating the dates of arrival and departure( sounds direct but you need to be)
Also, suggest they bring something( wine, cheese etc) to reinforce the message they need to contribute
Lastly, don't tiptoe around her.. she is an adult now and it's your home

Have you got any other relatives who live nearby who can take them for an evening? My in laws have relatives staying for a whole week and have palmed them off on us to host one evening so they have have a bit of space

CateringPanic none !

@Notoldeeally

You've made a start OP, but the habit of your daughter and her partner is engrained in their minds - see their intention this time of staying for 12 days instead of their usual 10 days, all without a thought of whether you want or can afford this, before you whittled the days back down to 7 - which is still very generous.

They are so comfortable they think nothing of helping themselves, without permission, to food they haven't paid for to take back to their home. The habit is strong with you too - you obviously love your daughter and want to spend some time with her - it's just become heavily weighted in her favour.

What does your husband think of the situation - can he support you by presenting a united front with both of you setting and maintaining the same boundaries where their thoughtless expectations are concerned? He can also bring up their taking over the family bathroom together.

I think the idea role playing is a good one and will get you (and your husband) into the habit of having an answer ready when needed or to preempt any falling back I to bad habits. Good luck - I'm sure it will get easier with practise and you can use this Christmas as a template for other holiday behaviours. 🌹

Notoldeeally thanks!
i think the food habit comes from when my dc were at uni .. i would alway send them back with a care package of food , treats etc .. like a few fresh bits for meals so that they didnnt have to shop after a long journey back . It felt that i was sending live with them .
So i think this sort of thing has stuck in their minds as a oattern .. and I still want to treat dc . However, I think its now sort of a pattern and also that bf is prehaos opportunistic. Its hard as 8 dont want to stop being kind and generous.

dh is most definitely on board!

You are right we need to practice.
Biggest anxiety is dd saying
we dont feel welcome i thought this was my home.. so i need to prepare for this .. and practice .. and find words to say its not actually her home but if she ever needed a roof over her head then our door is ooen . Its like I have to guard myself and its not natural .. but needs must and there is great advice on here.

In answer to the “I thought this was my home” question op:

Do not answer it directly! It’s a trap! if you say “yes it is” without qualifying then she has you on the ropes. And a direct “no it isn’t” is even worse as she can pretend she is justified in feeling hard done by”!

Best to say “of course <in a crisis> but it’s a home where your father and I live, and we find having visitors tiring and expensive nowadays which is why we are asking you to respect our limits please”