To ask for help regarding family Christmas things .. need thoughts!

[Notoldeeally]

So we have an issue about christmas!
last year we had a stressful time as we did not know when our adult dd s were leaving .. ( with partners) .. they ended up staying 10 days.

Now , i know they are our kids but its not the same when they bring partners .

We live in a modest 3 bed .

We are in our 60 s .. retired professionals with limited income . No state pension yet.

There are two issues

1. lenght of stay .Dd is always reluctant to make firm plans . She likes to think this is still her home and as such can stay as long as she wants. At christmas last year she would not say how long she wanted to stay , just saying oh I might want the new year here too . we found 10 days just too long , especially as partner with her.How to limit the lenght of stay. I was thinking 6 nights not ten this year,but this would mean them not being here for new year.. and they always want to be here for that too. They live a 4 hour drive away.. so want to stay for duration . We live in a seaside town and alternative accommodation like a house nearby would be great but its v v expensive.
2. activities ! When we are just watching tv or reading she says .. so what are we doing next .. i tell her oh we dont have to do anything, lets just chill .. but she seems to need structure .. so can we olay a game tonight , can we all watch a film.. ten nights of organised nights( as well as an organised thing like a walk for us all) exhausted us and we domt want to do it again. We repeatedly said games some nights but chill others , but she seems to have a fixation that we all need to be doing together!! Most if the time. She gets angry if we suggest otherwise.she seems to think us having a bit of soace is an insult to her , when it isnt .. she says things like well we should make the most of our time.how to tell her in a way she can hear???? Last Christmas was so exhausting and ended up with dh really really tense. we want to change it this year by being proactive and gently firm .. but we know dd will most likely be upset at this and also that there is a time limit as she thinks the oarental home is always open …and i get why she thinks that but we cant be that exhausted again. Any tips on how to say things much appreciated( I just know if we time limit she will say .. but if we only stay … so long.. what about new year.. i want to be here at new year too) I know we dont sound assertive but we dont want upset dd .. with our ds he takes time out goes for walks .. allows a bit of breathing soace.. with dd not so and its just how she is and has been since she was small .

I think your daughter doesn't need to know what your son contributes.

I think you should write to them now and say that last year was very expensive for you and must've saved them an absolute fortune because they didn't pay for anything for 10 days. You could say that her boyfriend didn't even pay for a drink and also took some of your food home with him.

I would say that you have had a tough year financially and that this year, everyone will have to contribute towards food apart from Christmas Day. so you just want to clarify things before they visit and that you will be alternating meals so that e.g. one night you will cook and you will pay for dinner and the next night they will cook and they will pay for dinner. I bet you anything that you get a low protein meal at night!

I'd also say that you really need a rest this Christmas, and you are enjoying the thought of being able to read and sit quietly

Honestly this sounds a bit sad to me.

She wants to spend time in her family home with her family doing something other then watch the TV. And you are both only in your 60s!

Plenty of parents like mine whom I live the other side of the world from would give their right arms to have this every Christmas. We'd all still complain about eachother mind and find it tiring.

If it is to much maybe try and limit "guests" ie. her partner, no her. But you have to do the same for any other DCs partners. And have her arrange and provide a suitable activity for each evening (film, game, cheese tasting etc.) or think of things that you would like.

In terms of contributing to costs and chipping in with chores this should be expected, if not her and partner actively wanting to. It would concern me if my adult DC and their partner did not.

She can’t just come to your house and eat all of your food like that, it’s like she thinks she’s a child.

How unfair on you! This year there’s no time given for when you are eating so it can’t be seen as late. Or otherwise she cooks the meal. Or otherwise have a cold buffet instead.

And no meal planning as every other day it’s her and boyfriends turn to buy the food and cook it.

This is unbelievable, the absolute cheek of your dd's boyfriend, not buying a drink, taking food home FFS!!! These are adults not children and he eats loads. You definitely need some boundaries.

Why couldn't you go any stay with them and they host, cook, pay for everything etc? Maybe then they would realise what they are expecting from you is too much.

It's reasonable to expect everyone to chip in both with cost and the workload and reasonable to expect some time to chill out, could you teach her to knit/ crochet or paint so she's got something to do that you haven't got to join in with all the time?

i would also probably do some meals in advance so you aren't cooking as much, things like curry, chilli, lasagne etc can be frozen and then put rice/ salad/ bread with it.

I would definitely say something about groceries and sharing chores. For example, ‘what nights would you like to cook and how much space will you need in the fridge to store whatever produce/groceries you’ll be bringing with you’. I’d also make comments about all having to chip in with tidying up, vacuuming etc as it’ll be a group of adults sharing a relatively small space.

Being mean is an awful trait and it’s sad that your daughter doesn’t think to suggest a meal out as a thank you for hosting etc but her partner takes the biscuit by not even offering you a drink when he’s heading to the bar!! I would have a frank conversation with your daughter about CoL, your financial situation and tell her that you’re not in a position to keep paying for 4 adults when you go out.

in terms of getting some space/time on your own, could you do a little welcome pack with perhaps two cinema tickets booked for one night, a flyer detailing a carol concert, a map of a local lights trail etc with a nice note saying you’re happy they’re staying but know they like to keep busy and as you’re not able to keep up/need to rest, here are some suggestions for local things they can do as a couple.

If that all fails, book yourself a trip away next year for 27-30th so they can’t over stay their welcome!

Christ, I'm 50 and I felt wrung out just reading your updates. I love having my kids to stay and get on really well with their DPs. But ten days and with that intensity! I'd crack by day 3 and all hell would break loose.
DD is too old to be behaving like this. Whatever her bloody attachment style.
Honestly OP you need to get her told. Something like you're excited to see her, and she's very welcome from x date to y date and after that "Dad and I will be knackered and need some time together ". Don't justify yourself.
And while you're at it, ask her to contribute a and b.
I honestly think with a mindset like hers you have to be really clear or she'll walk all over you again. She sounds very childlike in her attitude so firm directions seem appropriate.

Are we going to talk about the fact that OP tiptoes around the daughter so that daughter doesn't get angry? Apparently she sometimes does this within minutes of arriving.

OP, you shouldn't be doing everything she wants, unable to speak up, under the threat of her nasty temper. If she wants to behave like a spoiled child she should be treated like one. Meaning that you should give her a consequence (such as asking her to leave) if she can't control herself like an adult.

Honestly. My mum would tell me to grow the fuck up, then ignore me until I could be civil.

Honestly set ground rules and stick to them! She'll never learn otherwise.

I can't imagine descending on my mum's house and acting like your daughter!

It does seem sad to me that you want to limit her time with you, she knows you won't be around forever and she wants to see you both. I'd be really hurt if my parents told me that or that they needed space as a couple when I was staying- weird behaviour to me. Her boyfriend sounds like a dick though, not buying his round - that's pretty much illegal in my family.

Absolutely what I was thinking .

If you hadn't said you were 60's I'd think the post was written by someone in their 80's.
Be happy your DC want to spend time with you .

Talk to her about the plans before she comes - let her know that you got exhausted last year.

Christmas Day OK then Boxing Day - chill. They can go on a long walk or similar. 27th Games Night (not sure you or husband would have to join in really - why can’t they do some playing themselves?) 28th chill - they can go to the pub. 29th maybe a bite of lunch out or a coffee and the cinema. 30th they can go to local city, 31st chill until the evening New Year celebrations.

It's the financial side I find so thoughtless of them

I would tell them that it's wonderful to see them, and that 2024 is the year you're actually planning to go on a nice holiday - insert a similar holiday that they took - and in order to be able to afford it you need to cut right back so can't afford to be treating them to fish and chips or coffees out, and you'll need a contribution to the groceries if they are staying more than a couple of days as BF eats so much expensive protein.

It might be worth giving them an indication of what your income actually is. They probably imagine you have great work pensions because you retired early.

It reads like she wants to be entertained like a guest but treated like family.

My dds and their bfs stay between ours and there bfs . They come and go as the please and when they are here sometimes we hang out and sometimes we relax separately. I'm not obliged to entertain them.

I if it's an issue then limiting the time is a solution but I think I would try to be firmer on what the time together is like. By all means play a game or go for a walk but sometimes just go and do you own thing if she asks why just say you re resting and why doesn't she do something with her bf. Or she can sit and watch tv if she wants

With regards to paying we always provide food in house but if we go out dds and their bfs pay for themselves now unless we offer to treat.

What a shame you can't have an upfront conversation with your DD, and that you're finding her 'too much'. I hope I never feel this way about mine. 24 is still young.

You're only early 60's so I don't think the tired thing washes - what about a white lie... 'your dads been a bit under the weather, so make sure you make plans to do your own thing some of the days you're here - arrange to eat out / cinema that kind of thing - let me know your plans and I'll tell you if Dad and I want to join' That way you ensure she actually makes plans, and you indicate that if Dads up for it you might even come along.

If the OP is tired then she is tired - why are people telling her she is not allowed to be tired at 60 :/

Also, the scolding for not wanting to have her DD laminated to her side for 10 days straight. Surely anyone, no matter how much of a parent-saint they are, would have had enough of that by Day 3?

And I haven't even got to the financial cheekiness...

I've read the full thread now and tbh it doesn't sound like you particularly like your daughter. How sad.

Don't ask her what day she's leaving - TELL her she can only stay until the 28th or whatever day suits. If she pushes back, be honest - tell her exactly how you feel - tell her, her BF takes liberties and that she needs to help out more.

This is the whole problem with not speaking up when things start to grate - you're now in a position where it's going to cause a massive kick-off, because you haven't managed the small things.

Just read the post where the BF wouldn't buy you a drink in the pub . I would honestly have got up and left at that point after him enjoying your hospitality for so long.

I had kind of skimmed the thread and until that point thought he was treating you like substitute DPs, which is a bit clueless but understandable.

However now I think he is a CF. I would definitely message her something about cost of living and not being able to treat them because you have no money. Be very up front about it, they're taking the absolute mickey.

They sound incredibly entitled.

You say they don't even buy drinks and would never pay for a meal out, nor would you ask. Why on earth not?

Id make clear that they are expected to contribute to food and cooking meals and that there won't be 24/7 activities planned.

You might find that they are so tight, once they realise their all inclusive free holiday has ended, they'll decide not to come for as long. Win win.

You do need to have an honest conversation with her about not being able to afford all this stuff though. You sound almost scared of her.

Write down what you wnat to TELL your Dd. You’re telling her and not asking her.

be honest.

Move to a 1 bed flat

In your shoes I'd tell her come Christmas eve leave 28th and then you go to hers for new years . All the cooking the extra people in the house is stressful you need a break in between. They also should be sharing the cooking the cost of shopping and trips out. My daughter is almost your daughters age although still lives at home but I'm 20 years younger than you and add a partner and another couple I'd be fed up and it just causes tension and you wouldn't enjoy your time together.

"I think that’s a bit harsh. They are YOUNG. They have time to improve with guidance and more assertive communication from op."

They are both at least 24.

They hold down professional jobs. They can afford holidays. They are not teenagers. But they are behaving like teenagers. And please, I don't want someone to trot out that the "brain isn't fully developed at 24".

If they were staying in their rented accommodation for the holiday period they would need to buy food. It doesn't matter whether the OP is in her 60s or her 80s. Having people or family staying for that length of time in a very small house when one of them is demanding and neither of them chips in with costs and food prep is tiring and cheeky.

"...The way I’d personally do it is set up an activity jar in advance with activities written on paper inside. Each time your daughter ‘has’ to do an activity one gets picked out. But put ones in there that are quiet and relaxing activities like a walk, watching a film together, a board game or cards, a pamper evening that sort of thing. And it’s only one activity per day."

I might do this for a child - but not for a 24 year old who holds down a professional job.

To me, it would be pandering to her apparent need to always have someone's company and to not entertain herself. She has her boyfriend with her - what does he do all day apart from eat? Does she bring no hobbies of her own?

This is what my uncle did as soon as his DC left home.