To tell DS I won't take him for his driving test later (vile behaviour related!)

[boyohboys]

Massive argument with DS 17 this morning started over him ignoring a very simple request I'd made. I came downstairs saw he'd ignored me so asked again. He continued to refuse, I insisted, he got sweary & vile and I shouted very loud and stomped off muttering what an ungrateful & selfish shit he was and how I would remember this next time he wanted a favour.

So, he has his driving test after school tonight, it's out of area & needs me to get him there - it's a 3 hour round trip so not insignificant favour either! I'm thinking I should message him to say given this morning's debacle I won't be taking you to your test this evening so either cancel or get yourself there (not really an option unless he can find a mate to take him!)

Next available test isn't until February & not taking him will escalate an already frosty relationship even further. Added to which this sort of thing stand-off has happened before & I've followed through on threats or imposed sanctions but nothing changes and he continues to think it's everyone else at fault (me, his dad, school, etc ) and be generally unpleasant.

YANBU: don't take him: he doesn't deserve the favour. End of conversation.
YABU: take him: don't escalate it further and it won't change anything long term but do impose other sanctions/punishment instead (?)

Oh dear. He really knows how to cut his nose off to spite his face doesn’t he?

I can honestly tell you that 17 has been the hardest age for us too.

If it was 5 mins down the road it’s a small favour. A 3 hour round trip is a big favour.

I just think core part of parenting the unacceptability of abuse and that trumps a driving test at 17 by far. If it was an A level I would say different.

Two prime causes of accidents are immature boys and the elderly. I’d want to be convinced of greater maturity before facilitating a test.

Anyway he may fail, some people have to take the test several times. It’s no major deal if he doesn’t get it now.

Well he's a fool to himself.

If he doesn't go I suggest you return the car to the grandparents (with strict instructions it's sold) and he gets no more lifts/money/whatever till his attitude improves.

Xpost. Way to lose the upper hand.

I wonder what that will teach him about how he treats women.

On the plus side it’s just as well.

That does rather lend itself to natural consequences!

Refuse to give him non essential lifts and / or don't give him money for another driving test (or anything else) till his behavior improves.

what an entitled little shit after all that
oh i was thrwn out at 17for much less-if id dare call my mother a cunt id never be let back

Yes entitled little shit pretty much sums it up. He's just got home and I've explained I've taken time off work, his sister had to miss netball as I couldn't arrange a lift and that's not taking into account the investment both in time practising and ££££ invested in driving with him, his insurance, car & lessons. He doesn't care and isn't fussed about driving as he can't afford the insurance when he passes so what's the point.

I apologised for my actions and he just sat there and said 'whatever, I'm not taking my test' I told him how hurt I was and that his body language and words were intimidating which isn't acceptable - apparently that's my problem not his. I honestly despair

Well I guess it might be a while until he can learn to drive then as I don't expect you will be making any effort to help him with it any more?!

Messing you all around like that is very entitled.

Was he always not that bothered about driving and just did it because you wanted him to, or has he changed his mind / is doing it to be annoying/ controlling?

WHY are YOU apologising to him?

No wonder he has no respect for women.

I apologised for swearing and stomping off neither of which were helpful or appropriate. I was hoping an apology from me might prompt the same from him (modelling good behaviour) but apparently not. And absolutely all lifts off the cards. Getting to work at 8:30 Sunday morning will be interesting!

Thanks @BurbleBurbleBurble really helpful when I'm clearly struggling

Without wanting to psychoanalyse him could this be self sabotage along the lines of “I’m scared about the test, I don’t want to fail either consciously or subconsciously”? Feeling a bit of pressure as grandparents have bought the car? I have a 17 year old and tests are a big thing, lots of awareness about who passed and who didn’t.

Either way I can see why you’re cross but he’s just not empathetic atm so he probably doesn’t care about you taking time off work and his sisters netball. Wonder if being breezy and “oh well your decision” combined with no more support financial or otherwise for learning to drive might be the best for him and you?

Unless he has mental illness there has to be a triggering point for this. What happened before he was 15? Why was he grounded the first time he swore? There are many reasons children become "difficult" - was he bullied? Was there any grief involved around that time? It's so sad for both of you that you don't have a relationship.

Harsh

If you don’t take him then you are shooting yourself in the foot by extending the amount of time you may have to run around after him.

Utterly pointless and vile comment to make about someone's son. There are many 17 year olds that are quite frankly dicks, many of them go on to become perfectly nice, decent people.

You apologised to HIM?.

and there’s your problem. you’re enabling his appalling behaviour and reinforcing that he is behaving correctly and you’re wrong.

🙈

It's not about the driving test!!! You'll see OP says he has form for shit behaviour.

I feel for you OP but I really think you need to get DH onside. With you not standing together on this, it's making it easy for him.

Get some ground rules down and stick to them! He's called you a cunt and nobody's pulled him on it and you offered him a lift! Wtf!

No boundaries, making his behaviour feel the norm for him.

Good luck OP.

Seems like there's a lot of anxiety in him and he's got a thing about not backing down.

He got overwhelmed this afternoon.

You sound as though you've got a grip on this@boyohboys . You're compassionate and caring, while helping him to understand it's not ok to behave like that.

Stay strong!

This.

And dont engage with the teenage sulk. Be bright and breezy: 'Oh well, there will be a next time'.

Teenagers can often have the empathy of a teaspoon with the emotional regulation of an angry bull elephant.

Perhaps keeping things light and surface is what he needs right now. He doesn't want to be understood.

A driving test is an important life event and a squabble shouldn't impact that. I can't even imagine not helping mine with something like that even if I was furious with them. It's a step to helping them move into adulthood and independence.

Then he needs to learn to control himself and quickly. This isn't a naughty toddler, who cant self regulate, this is an almost adult man, and adult men cannot and must not be permitted to abuse women when they are 'anxious' and 'overwhelmed'. I'm sure he understands fine well his behaviour is not OK. But while it's rewarded with gentle tones and apologies, why should he care to change?

I'm sorry I didn't read updates before posting.

I apologised for my actions and he just sat there and said 'whatever, I'm not taking my test'

You blindsided him. He couldn't react in a rational way because he was expecting fireworks and he got compassion.

Also, your arrangements are not his problem. You said you would take him. That is all that is relevant to him.

There is a lot of 'I' in your post. He doesn't care at the moment. He is totally self-absorbed. So don't expect anything from him currently. It's exhausting I know, but try not to let him get in your head. (Obviously he's always on your mind, he is your kid, but just allow yourself a break from thinking about this).

He will be absolutely kicking himself but he will also think it is totally your fault because he has to blame anyone but himself. So take all the heat out of it. Say, I'm really sorry. It's very overwhelming. It's not a problem. You seem to have thought about your decision so that's fine. If you change your mind you can book another test.

He might not have passed anyway and then you would have had to shell out for more lessons and your time, plus the worry of a stubborn 17 year old driving.

If he decides to learn further down the line he will have the basics, it won't all be wasted.

You say he has been bought a car? I would sell it, tbh. Or offer it back to the grandparents to sell it. Not a punishment, just a practical consequence of his decision. (Don't have that conversation today though!)