To tell DS I won't take him for his driving test later (vile behaviour related!)

[boyohboys]

Massive argument with DS 17 this morning started over him ignoring a very simple request I'd made. I came downstairs saw he'd ignored me so asked again. He continued to refuse, I insisted, he got sweary & vile and I shouted very loud and stomped off muttering what an ungrateful & selfish shit he was and how I would remember this next time he wanted a favour.

So, he has his driving test after school tonight, it's out of area & needs me to get him there - it's a 3 hour round trip so not insignificant favour either! I'm thinking I should message him to say given this morning's debacle I won't be taking you to your test this evening so either cancel or get yourself there (not really an option unless he can find a mate to take him!)

Next available test isn't until February & not taking him will escalate an already frosty relationship even further. Added to which this sort of thing stand-off has happened before & I've followed through on threats or imposed sanctions but nothing changes and he continues to think it's everyone else at fault (me, his dad, school, etc ) and be generally unpleasant.

YANBU: don't take him: he doesn't deserve the favour. End of conversation.
YABU: take him: don't escalate it further and it won't change anything long term but do impose other sanctions/punishment instead (?)

Which will go in one ear and out the other, and be disregarded with a smirk.

No, no more taxis.

Drop him there for the test so he doesn’t miss it. Let him make his own way back.

You've decided to take him, which I agree with. If he passes it'll give him more options for work (my DD couldn't consider quite a few jobs as she couldn't drive), either to travel there or do it as part of the job. Despite his attitude, if he's working in time that has to be a good thing.

After the test, I'd really try and talk to him. Start of gently, that you're there for him but this can't continue. Tell him you're there to listen if he wants to tell you why things are so hard for him and he lashes out, if not point out there is support out there for anger management/counselling if things that getting too much. I guess he probably won't listen to any of this, but then go on to say you love him, but have absolutely had enough and due to the way he treated your earlier, you won't be giving him lifts, cooking or washing for him for the next 2-3 weeks.

If you feel the above is in any way the right way to go and he won't listen, maybe write him a letter and leave it on his bed. Even if he doesn't open it now, at some point he will and he might actually consider some of it.

Is there anything is his past that he could be struggling to deal with, split between parents, abuse, feeling he's no worthy? Anything like this can be hard to cope with, especially for a young person with hormones.

OP you sound lovely and you are clearly coming at this from a place of trying to do the right thing. I’d take him. Then talk to him another time about how hurtful his behaviour is. I don’t think by not taking him he will suddenly start behaving. Taking him then talking to him would hopefully make him see the light.

Please come back later and let us know if he passes 😁

What plan if any does DS have for his life OP? If he doesn’t have one or if he is falling short of his goals, could this be part of the problem? Not that it is in any way an excuse.

He clearly has some growing up to do, which puts him in plenty of company.

Because his DGPs gave him a car, I am wondering whether you might be able to afford private family counselling? I admit that how you persuade him to attend is a question, but it has better chances than labelling him The Problem and asking him to do personal counselling.

When I said upthread I wouldn’t cook or clean for anyone who called me a cunt until they apologised, it was about preserving my self respect rather than punishing a child. I think there is a difference, and children sense it. Best wishes

I totally understand your dilemma, taking him condones his behaviour but it is a big deal…. Maybe the journey will give you a chance to talk

A very good point.

'I love you but right now I really don't like you'

The above was said by DMIL at some point to each of her DSs in their teenage years. They all grew up just fine.

Another thought, apparently teenagers are not good at recognising other people's emotions (something to do with brain development) and interpret negative emotions in others (fear, worry, pain, concern) as anger.

So it is perfectly possible that he is seeing you mildly displeased about something and misinterpreting that as full blown anger. He then responds in kind to that 'anger'.

As an exercise for yourself, have you tried being resolutely light and cheerful no matter the provocation from DS? I have done this with my then teenage DS when he would get into a rage having lost something. 'Oh dear, that's a shame! Would you like me to come and help search your bedroom?'. Funnily enough, me offering to search his bedroom had a calming effect!

Oh OP I worry this will be me in 10 years time! I have a possibly similar 8 year old (so far minus the swearing) and I have a zero tolerance attitude to crossing the line on disrespect but

1. it's very hard and
2. as you have said it's so easy to send the relationship into a negative spiral.

One thing that sometimes works for me is after things have calmed down a bit I am nice to him but have an open conversation about how upsetting and difficult I found his behavior (when you said x it made me feel y) and how hard it can make it to have a fun relationship. If I think I was mean, I also apologize even if it was provoked.

I also ask his opinion on how we could change things to help us be nicer to each other / to get specific tasks done, sometimes he has some good ideas!

I think it's important to balance firm sanctions with love, good times, and rewards.

But by the time they are 17 I can really see the fear of the adult he will become will be setting in.

DS can be absolutely lovely and I love him, same as you with yours.

I would take him, and not mention this until tomorrow, or at least after the test. He's probably nervous about the test but that absolutely doesn't excuse his outburst to you, that language is disgusting (I swear a lot, but not 'at' people).

I would sit him down and have a serious conversation with him, that he won't be getting any favours from me unless he starts treating me with respect, and that directing disgusting language like that towards someone is out of order.

You took him to the test because while he didn't deserve that favour, you recognise it was more important to do it than to stand your ground, but that you won't be doing that again. And that his attitude and behaviour needs a serious overhaul.

I'd take him to his test. But then I'd do fuck all for him after that. What a despicable scrote

Massive argument with DS 17 this morning started over him ignoring a very simple request I'd made. I came downstairs saw he'd ignored me so asked again. He continued to refuse, I insisted, he got sweary & vile and I shouted very loud and stomped off muttering what an ungrateful & selfish shit he was and how I would remember this next time he wanted a favour.

Maybe this has already been asked and answered, but @boyohboys what was the 'very simple request' that kicked all this off?

Either way I think I'd refuse to take him. He doesn't respect you (or any woman by the sounds of it now), and he sure as hell won't when he treats you like shit and you still give him what he wants. He's not a five-year-old who needs consequences spelled out in advance, he's nearly an adult who knows actions come with consequences.

I wouldn't even tell him in advance. After his behaviour he shouldn't assuming he's still getting a lift. In fact he should be assuming the opposite. He should be going out of his way to apologise to you and check whether you're still willing to help him out. But he's not, so no lift.

Based on all your updates, I would not take him.

I would give every chance to apologise and I would speak very calmly and civilly to him but I would do nothing for anyone who was abusive to me and would not apologise.

It's not about punishing, it's about modelling healthy boundaries. To me, teaching my child not to be abusive is more important than any other life skill.

I totally agree. I think that’s a very important factor.

He sounds like he needs therapy or even a programme for young people who use abuse in personal relationships.

I would sit him down and have a serious conversation with him, that he won't be getting any favours from me unless he starts treating me with respect, and that directing disgusting language like that towards someone is out of order.

But that’s meaningless when he’s just had a massive favour. Words are empty if not supported by action.

"This causes tension between us however as I see it as checking-out on the Parenting but in truth don't blame him."

Why do you not blame your DH?
He's 50% responsibility for the parenting of his son.

Your son has an 'absent' Dad then who takes Zero interest in his son's life and their relationship is absolutely crap.

If you are shouting and swearing at your son then all you can expect is shouting and swearing back.

What is really making you THAT angry?
It's surely not that the dishwasher wasn't emptied when you wanted it emptied?

But that’s meaningless when he’s just had a massive favour.

I guess it depends if you see helping your kid get their driving test as a favor or a core part of parenting. (I'm not sure which I think, I didn't pass mine till I was 28!)

Also if you make a promise to do something then ideally you should not go back on it unless it was already conditional on good behavior.

She shouted at him after he called her a cunt, and muttered under her breath that he was an ungrateful shit. Which he is, and worse.

No, it’s not perfect behaviour, but they’re really
not comparable actions. To be honest, I don’t know what the appropriate reaction is to being called a fucking petty cunt. If DP ever called me that then it would be the end of our relationship.

If DP ever called me that then it would be the end of our relationship.

Absolutely. DH often says that if DS was his partner he would have been dumped long ago!

Parenting is the only time in your life (for most people) when you are forced to stay in an abusive relationship ☹️

Yabvu he perhaps wasn't in a good mood this morning because he's stressed about his test. If you wanna punish him go for it but not like this and if you do take him don't bring up this morning on the way to the test. Just save anything you have to say until after, you irritating him perceived or otherwise is not gonna help

YANBU.

Make him grovel abs understand red lines

Teenagers are notorious for their lack of empathy, but this should excuse the horrible way he speaks to you. I think you need to talk to your son and tell him how much his cruel words have hurt you. Remind him that you have feelings too. This needs to be done in a calm way and not in the heat of the moment.

Just looking to see if son passed his test or if he failed and is blaming his parent.

Been there. The only comfort I can offer is that most of them grow out of it. Mine did and he was an absolute horror as a teen.

Well don't hold your breath waiting for a test update as he's text to say he's not going and now switched his phone off I sent a reply telling I'm ready to take him & tried calling but no response.