To tell DS I won't take him for his driving test later (vile behaviour related!)

[boyohboys]

Massive argument with DS 17 this morning started over him ignoring a very simple request I'd made. I came downstairs saw he'd ignored me so asked again. He continued to refuse, I insisted, he got sweary & vile and I shouted very loud and stomped off muttering what an ungrateful & selfish shit he was and how I would remember this next time he wanted a favour.

So, he has his driving test after school tonight, it's out of area & needs me to get him there - it's a 3 hour round trip so not insignificant favour either! I'm thinking I should message him to say given this morning's debacle I won't be taking you to your test this evening so either cancel or get yourself there (not really an option unless he can find a mate to take him!)

Next available test isn't until February & not taking him will escalate an already frosty relationship even further. Added to which this sort of thing stand-off has happened before & I've followed through on threats or imposed sanctions but nothing changes and he continues to think it's everyone else at fault (me, his dad, school, etc ) and be generally unpleasant.

YANBU: don't take him: he doesn't deserve the favour. End of conversation.
YABU: take him: don't escalate it further and it won't change anything long term but do impose other sanctions/punishment instead (?)

Which part of the country do ypu live in OP. I can't get a driving test slot for 6 months!

but I can’t help but wonder if it wouldn’t have escalated to this point if she’d been a bit more aware of how he might have been feeling. Perhaps not a morning to be reminding him to do a small task.

It's clear from the OP's posts that this isn't a one-off triggered by driving test stress.

OP do you have a DH on the scene? You say your son doesn't respect women. It shouldn't come to this but would he listen to his dad?

Firstly yes it’s a big day and he’s probably stressed. Acknowledging that and letting it go is enough.

He is nearly an adult I don’t think sanctions is the way to go. You need a chat to improve things at home and agree the reasonable ground rules. Respect (mutual) being the main one. Another good one is curiosity - he needs to be interested in what you need and you him. He needs to understand that asking him to do something is not a criticism of him and it needs to not be a criticism of him.

take him out for tea after his test and work on the above. Respect. Curiosity.

so in future if you ask him
for something / to do something he needs to
learn to listen to you and understand why you have asked and he is welcome
to ask questions respectfully to understand his options.

Eg DS please pop
all your washing in the machine before you go out . But muuum
why?

Well …electricity costs/the environment/other reason…. we need to be efficient and do all washing together so it needs to be done this morning as I have to get it dry before bedtime. For example.

All grown up stuff.

Natural consequences if he doesn’t do it, matter of fact adult to adult, calm answer

if you aren’t able to DS thats fine but I won’t be washing again till x day, but you can do them yourself if you need to another time but please put £3 in the electric fund for each wash

🤞

he'd rather walk 3.5 miles than say sorry!

Well then let him.

I would take him as it's such an important thing, but not engage in converstaion in any way. Just ignore him. Not that there is any excuse for such behaviour but he is probably anxious about the test and doesn't have the maturity to deal with his emotions so lashing out at you. In fact I would just from now on, just pretty much ignore him and don't give a reaction and just stop doing aything else for him. He won't appologise (I speak from bitter experience) and the more you nag and try to point out the error of his ways, he won't listen. He's a teenage boy, he knows everything obviously and thinks h's always right!

He swears and is vile, you get shouty, stompy and call him selfish shit?

Both utterly unreasonable - but he's a teen.

Take him to the test.

Unfortunately when you have a challenging teen, the temptation is to do absolutely nothing nice for them because they don't deserve it but I've leant through bitter experience it doesn't help your relationship, it doesn't change their behaviour or make it a nice way for anyone to live. Besides, I want to do things for him - he's my son and I love him regardless. I want to see him succeed and help him learn these important life skills so sometimes I will bite my tongue or ignore things he should probably be doing (clean bedroom for example - not a hill I'm going to die on!) but other times I will insist he helps out or does a minor chore and it can set off WW3.

He got lessons for his birthday & generous grandparents bought his car so not things I can take away or penalise him with now. He has learners insurance paid for until March but after that it's on him to pay.

I did!

The thing is, if you’re going to take an action like this, you need to give a warning that he’s risking you choosing to do this first. It’s not reasonable after the event to message him and say this is what you’ve decided….especially as it’s a big deal event.

Maybe after the test, I a couple of days, when the time is right, tell him you found his behaviour this morning unacceptable and you won’t be accepting g it again without imposing consequences. If possible, tell him what those consequences will be. Then it’s over to him.

But no, doing what you feel furious enough to do would be a knee jerk reaction if anger and punishments shouldn’t be on that basis. It wouldn’t help the issue and probably make it all worse. No knee jerk reactions…think, plan, communicate, give him a chance to respond positively or negatively and then enforce what you’ve said. It is like dealing with a child, but communication and consistency are always the right things.

Don't panic nothing magic happening here - booked ages ago and it was either this one or next one Feb. No chance he'll get that now sorry I wasn't clearer.

I'm a right bitch and wouldn’t take him.

actions have consequences and it’s tough shit - straw that broke the camels back and all that.

This is a pretty important event for him. I'd message and let him know you expect a sincere apology if he wants you to take him for his driving test later, or he'll have to make alternative arrangements. Then the ball is in his court.

I think you should still drive him, as it won't help the situation or your relationship if you don't.

But don't initiate any practical arrangements for it - like telling him when or where you will be collecting him, and wait until he asks you about it, which might give him time to think about the fact that it's a massive favour that you might not feel like doing after what he said.

Without sounding like a boomer, this is why our kids have less respect and are not grateful. If I argued with my mum no way on earth would she have taken me, no matter what it was. She would have said 'should have thought about that before the attitude' or whatever
I would take my son but again, I am a soft touch who gives in too.

You can't not take him - this is too significant! - but I would damn sure not pay his insurance!!!

It will go up massively if he passes - you need to let the insurer know straight away as otherwise he won't be insured on his learner's insurance, and that will give him a wake up call!!

What's his behaviour like with them? His siblings? His father?

Teachers? Everyone else?

This is beyond ‘teen’ behaviour! Would he speak to his Dad or another bloke like this or is it just, as you say, reserved for women? This is very worrying behaviour. I worry for any future girlfriend's or wives he may have. If my son ever spoke to me like that he would be dragged out of the house by his father and would be sleeping in a shop doorway. Actions have consequences! I wouldn’t take him. He would have the ‘inconvenience’ of waiting another few months for his next test. Whether it has any real effect on his behaviour or not is irrelevant. You are demonstrating you will not accept this abuse and are holding your boundaries! The choice is up to him.

Agreed. Although I know I would be severely tempted to give him one hell of a shock, this is the best advice. If things don’t improve afterwards, impose sanctions without shouting and swearing. Hard, though, and been there with DS1 and probably will with DS2 …

I sympathise, OP, though you can't expect him to speak to you respectfully if you call him a shit. I thought it many times about my youngest child when she was that age, but managed to keep it in my head (along with "oh just fuck off").

A bit radical, but I sent this same youngest child on a gap year to do voluntary work in India (there are organisations which do this) because we were at a kind of negative stalemate in our relationship and much of her behaviour and angry attitude was similar to your son's. She never actively called me a cunt - instead, she would look at me and say "cunt" and then say "I wasn't aiming that at you" with a sarky smile.

She is now 19 and is so different. A year of being shouted at by people who didn't give a shit about her and just expected her to get on with it and pull her weight without any attitude made a huge difference to her. We have barely had a cross word since she returned (she's now at university). Part of it will have been just growing up, but a huge change of scenery and personnel, with no way to strop off and say "I want a lift home NOW", was a very good thing. If you can find something similar, I would recommend it.

You might have a chance to have a calm conversation on the journey. You can talk calmly about the problems you've been having and the disrespect. Maybe he has privileges like phone and internet that can be removed until he is more respectful to you.

Yes, those are my favourites. I haven’t had to do it often - twice with one, once with the other - and it has worked when done.

This post is the way to go. I'm usually on the tougher side but a driving test is different and even if they have usual form for being horrible I would say nerves etc will add to it. Don't say anything in way there but definitely do on way home

GROW UP

I’d take him although I do think someone has really valid point about whether he should be in in charge of a car if he’s behaving with that kind of anger and aggression.

No real suggestions of how to deal with him from me, it sounds like you’ve tried all of the usual consequences. I’ve find, like you , with my teen DS, that sometimes the usual ways of dealing with bad behaviour (grounding, taking the Xbox, refusing lifts etc ) seem to have the opposite effect and escalates everything without any real change.

Maybe it will in time and it’s a matter of consistency and him growing up but I think it’s worth considering a different approach and recognising it might be coming from a place of insecurity or low self esteem. I can sometimes work out what triggers my DS to be difficult and rude and I definitely don’t mean it’s something that we should put up with and think it’s really important to keep asserting that you will not accept being sworn at or rudeness but I do think returning to toddler parenting in some ways can work a bit. I’m currently making a huge effort to be really huggy with him (when he is not being horrible) and sometimes I can physically feel the tension go out of him when I grab him and say come here you lovely boy, I love you so much.

Not read everyone's responses, but I'd say take him. Once he's able to drive it'll instill some independence (does he have a car or will he have a car shortly after passing his test?) and you won't have to do him any more driving favours in the future.
Agree with other posters though - I passed my test in 2008 and, even then, I was waiting months for tests.