To feel RAGE against schools lack of care towards working parents?

[Stormy900]

I'm so, so angry!!!!
I'm a working parent.
I'm a nurse, so I can't WFH.
Why oh why oh why do primary schools set ALL their plays and productions during school hours when I, and so many other parents I know, are AT WORK!!!!
WHY don't schools factor this in????
My DC has a Christmas performance coming up and it is really important to him and to me that I'm there, it would fill my heart with absolute joy to see him. But school only informed us of the date 10 days ago. I have requested to take annual leave to attend it, but it has been refused by my manager because there are other colleagues on annual leave that day who have already requested, and I've been told my request is too short notice, but I've only recently been informed of the date by school. I'm absolutely heartbroken to not be able to attend. If I'd been given much more notice, I could have attended.
Also, another issue is HOW LITTLE NOTICE schools give parents about dates for events that parents are invited to. Sports day, parents being invited in to see DC's work and class displays, summer shows, Easter performances, class assemblies where my DC have speaking parts, and of course Christmas events. The school tells us no more than 2 weeks in advance maximum. Why?????
In my job, A/L has to be requested SIX WEEKS in advance because of staff rotas.
And don't get me started on children being given award certificates in assembly each week, which parents are invited to watch and the teachers TELL THE CHILDREN THEIR PARENTS ARE INVITED....they invite parents on the afternoon of THE DAY BEFORE THE CERTIFICATE ASSEMBLY!!!!
On Monday, school sent an email to me at 3pm, which I didn't pick up because I was managing a blood transfusion for a critically ill patient, so I picked it up later that day, as I can't access my emails as soon as they come in if I'm working. The invite was for 9am THE NEXT DAY!!!
There was no way I could attend at this level of short notice, as I was due to be at work the next morning, starting at 7am.
My little DD cried and cried. She said she wanted me there more than anything.
I have missed sooooooo many primary school events for my 2 DC because of horrific short notice from school. If I'd had dates in advance I could have attended them all.
WHY do schools do this???
They MUST KNOW what dates they're going to do events on. I simply refuse to believe they don't. They MUST have to plan their school calendar, activities, shows, performances, awards, in advance.
WHY do they assume all parents are eithet stay at home mothers or are in WFH jobs??
I'm SO angry!!!

Or the tired little ones falling asleep on the stage (years ago when the HT insisted on this a few had to be picked off before they fell over). Or those that don't turn up because parents won't come out again or they have Brownies or whatever.

@neverbeenskiing
Note the use of 'suggest' not 'demand' or 'insist'.

So nice of you to quote only part of what I said. I also said this 'School staff are likely to have to give up their own time to do this, so please don't approach them with this rage'.

I'm with schools on this. They can't win with parents. Why not go after one of the posters on here foaming at the mouth over how 'schools don't give a shit about children'.

YANBU about the lack of notice. School Christmas plays happen ever year so it really shouldn’t be hard to release dates at least 6 weeks in advance- our school does.

Time - YABU - you’re making a big assumption that teachers will be available in the evenings. Several in our school have commitments outside of school, including second jobs. So that one’s just luck of the drawn. 6pm might suit you but wouldn’t suit others.

Weekly award ceremonies- take your kid for celebratory McDonald’s or trampoline park trip to make up for the fact you couldn’t be there.

What a ridiculous comment! Could they not do one evening and one day performance given that most schools do two performances anyway. Not difficult is it?

Yes it is difficult as many posters with actual experience have explained:

Small children are often too tired to perform in the evening.
Children have out of school activities like. Brownies or music lessons they don't want to miss.
Some parents work in the evening or at night.
Some parents don't bother to bring children back in the evening.
Teachers could be working more than their Directed hours without extra pay.
Teachers have their own families and a life outside school.
Teachers are quite likely to live too far away to go home and eat etc then come back by 6 for the performance.
School caretaker would have to be paid overtime to put chairs out and clear them away.

Have I missed anything?

I agree with all of this.

I am a full time working parent married to another full time working parent. Juggling school events with work and life is an absolute nightmare but no way would I be happy with evening events for all the above reasons. It's the poor kids who will be shattered or hungry or miss out.

@CaptainMyCaptain yes you did:

Children having younger siblings that need to be in bed by 7pm. Parents not having access to a babysitter for them. Cue performance drowned out by overtired toddlers.

Evening performances are great in secondary. In primary they cause just as much complaint and dissatisfaction as daytime ones.

School must have a website with calendar of events.
teachers themselves have same problem and miss their children’s assemblies/sports days as like you they cant take time off work. Do you have partner or family that can attend in your place?
must teachers work evenings too?

This is our school calendar for December. It is missing everything. No details of school trips, the nativities, the carol services, dress down days, class party that we have to send food in for......

Its all - teachers cant win.
I always supported the school, but I also understand why some parents become anti teachers. Because it is true that so many kids needs just get ignored or minimised.

We never seem yo do them on Fridays. I'm not really sure of the reasoning for that but we don't do performances on Mondays because two days of no practice over the weekend means a lot of children wil forget what they're doing. They're only young and they're not professionals. Practising on Friday and expecting them to remember everything by Monday is unrealistic - regardless of how well they remembered it on Friday!

We aim to give a minimum of a weeks notice of specific details but dates are always given well in advance.

Eg Christmas parties. I always make sure we send the info out before the weekend so that parents have the weekend to shop or prepare etc.

It's not perfect but we do try...

I’ve read a lot, but not all, of this thread.

I am a TA in a primary school, we are a fairly small school but very busy - a combination of a Head who likes to “squeeze things in” and an active PTA. Lots of things happen at very short notice. My DC attends the same school but even with insider information, I still don’t get enough notice for some things! That said, I am a regular PTA volunteer who gives hours of time for free each term to supervise/support fundraising sales/discos/events. I’ve also supported sporting events beyond school hours and sat with children while their parents have meetings after school - all without pay.

I love my job but if the Head suddenly announced we would be doing an evening performance then I would not volunteer because, at that time, my own family needs me. Also, bearing in mind the low regard lots of people seem to have for teachers, why would they put themselves up for it as they would definitely be criticised by someone somewhere?

I can appreciate your position OP because it’s awful missing things but lots of us have been in the same position, you definitely aren’t alone. Do contact the school, politely, and ask about notice for important events - it isn’t unreasonable to ask for a bit more notice - but you would be very unreasonable to expect an evening performance which inconveniences some of the staff, the children themselves and their families.

I've explained many times how schools support children who don't have an adult coming.

What do you think schools should do?

As a child of two teacher parents who could never attend my school plays, nativities, assemblies etc, I understand.
My parents always sent a grandparents with a camcorder!

Schools don’t exist to care for any parents. Schools can’t plan things around parents’ schedules because that would be impossible. Teachers are parents too. School things happen in school hours. And plenty of parents won’t be there.

Nativities and other nice events like celebration assemblies are not part of the curriculum.

Many additional hours of time and energy goes into producing nativities, on top of teaching the full curriculum.

Full time teachers are paid for 35 hours per week but in reality work a minimum of 45 and often around 60 hours per week.

Dates of certain things are decided months in advance but some things need to be booked in a little later because of lots of different factors that need to be juggled.

Schools give as much consideration to working parents as is reasonable to do. Believe me, no teacher wants to spend weeks prepping a nativity to then be deliberately unaccommodating to parents, and we also have to deal with the disappointment of individual children when they have no adult attend.

There definitely is no assumption that parents are able to drop things at a moments notice, we just try to weigh up all the factors and accommodate as many as possible.

For assemblies with Certificate giving, it could be planned so that parents can arrange with the school which day and which week they CAN attend to see their child awarded a Certificate. It's doable I think. Children shouldn't suffer a penalty because a parent/parents work.

This is a massive logistical job that would require staffing levels that are unworkable. If this was needed then we just wouldn't bother inviting parents.

@BlueFlowers5

So, usually Celebration Assembly, where certificates are handed out, is on a Friday afternoon. Are you seriously suggesting that, one week, we move it to Tuesday morning because Fred's mum isn't at work then, one week we have it straight after lunch on a Wednesday so Bill's dad can get there, the next week we move it to after school on a Monday as Arthur's mum works shifts and that's the only day she can make!

For assemblies with Certificate giving, it could be planned so that parents can arrange with the school which day and which week they CAN attend to see their child awarded a Certificate. It's doable I think. Children shouldn't suffer a penalty because a parent/parents work.

That's insane. Also, many parents work FULL TIME - if they can't take Tuesday off, most wouldn't be able to take Wednesday off too! Certainly the case for me.

So your children had family members there.

I don't see why schools should invite parents to certificate assemblies unless it's at the end of their time at that school e.g. Year 6 Leaver's Assembly.

Anything else seems way over the top.

I didn't make it to most of the things my kids did in their older Primary years and they seemed to have survived perfectly well. I made it to the things that really mattered e.g leaving ceremonies but not all of the class assemblies, sports days etc. I just made sure they knew in advance and that I had asked a fellow parent they knew well to wave and smile at them.

Honestly, it's not that big of a deal to them unless you make it one.

It’s a total nightmare for teachers. They work too and I don’t blame them for wanting not to have to take time away from their own kids. They work incredibly hard as it is. I think one has to be realistic about this: you can’t please everyone.

It has to be said, though, that the amount of notice provided to working parents is quite often pretty shit.

My DD’s primary school routinely organised “meet the teacher” sessions at 9am on (for example) a Tuesday and informed us the preceding Friday.

I do think there is an inherent assumption at a lot of schools that there is always a parent who can drop most things to accommodate these events. As a single parent I have fallen foul of these attitudes a lot.

@sherr And I have explained that I think these kind of events should be kept to the minimum.
And supporting upset children does nothing to prevent the upset.