To feel RAGE against schools lack of care towards working parents?

[Stormy900]

I'm so, so angry!!!!
I'm a working parent.
I'm a nurse, so I can't WFH.
Why oh why oh why do primary schools set ALL their plays and productions during school hours when I, and so many other parents I know, are AT WORK!!!!
WHY don't schools factor this in????
My DC has a Christmas performance coming up and it is really important to him and to me that I'm there, it would fill my heart with absolute joy to see him. But school only informed us of the date 10 days ago. I have requested to take annual leave to attend it, but it has been refused by my manager because there are other colleagues on annual leave that day who have already requested, and I've been told my request is too short notice, but I've only recently been informed of the date by school. I'm absolutely heartbroken to not be able to attend. If I'd been given much more notice, I could have attended.
Also, another issue is HOW LITTLE NOTICE schools give parents about dates for events that parents are invited to. Sports day, parents being invited in to see DC's work and class displays, summer shows, Easter performances, class assemblies where my DC have speaking parts, and of course Christmas events. The school tells us no more than 2 weeks in advance maximum. Why?????
In my job, A/L has to be requested SIX WEEKS in advance because of staff rotas.
And don't get me started on children being given award certificates in assembly each week, which parents are invited to watch and the teachers TELL THE CHILDREN THEIR PARENTS ARE INVITED....they invite parents on the afternoon of THE DAY BEFORE THE CERTIFICATE ASSEMBLY!!!!
On Monday, school sent an email to me at 3pm, which I didn't pick up because I was managing a blood transfusion for a critically ill patient, so I picked it up later that day, as I can't access my emails as soon as they come in if I'm working. The invite was for 9am THE NEXT DAY!!!
There was no way I could attend at this level of short notice, as I was due to be at work the next morning, starting at 7am.
My little DD cried and cried. She said she wanted me there more than anything.
I have missed sooooooo many primary school events for my 2 DC because of horrific short notice from school. If I'd had dates in advance I could have attended them all.
WHY do schools do this???
They MUST KNOW what dates they're going to do events on. I simply refuse to believe they don't. They MUST have to plan their school calendar, activities, shows, performances, awards, in advance.
WHY do they assume all parents are eithet stay at home mothers or are in WFH jobs??
I'm SO angry!!!

So your solution is not to run any events for the children at all.

Because otherwise you're advocating for me and my colleagues to run an evening event for nothing.

The children leave at 3.20. An evening event would start sometime between 5 and 7 and finish sometime between 6.30 and 9 (depending on duration).

Would you work for potentially an extra 5.5 hours a day for nothing?

Or to run fewer events so that all of the children miss out on the whole thing rather than a few not having their parents there?

Your not the only one OP.

Im not a nurse but I work mon to fri 9-5, can’t work from home and I can’t take short notice AL and it really pisses me off the amount of things that happen during the school hours that I can attend. Even my daughters school fun day which used to always happen on a Saturday was moved to a bloody Tuesday this year!

I get teachers must struggle to if they have children but why does it always feel as though things are aimed towards parents who don’t work? My DC’s school is always crying out for parent council members but holds every meeting during the school day and wonder why parents can’t attend or join in 🤦🏻‍♀️ they are told time and time again but nobody listens.

Tell that to ofsted then.

Tbh, it s a major hassle arranging any event where parents are involved but, as someone else pointed ut, ofsted have a big focus on parental involvement. Their belief being that the more we involve parents, the greater their engagement will be, the stronger the hole/school partnership will be and the greater children's attainment will be.

It makes no difference in reality because the parents who do attend are the ones who are already engaged in their child's education. The ones who don't either can't because of work or don't give a shit. Of those who can't attend because of work, we know some would if they could and are already engaged in their child's learning or they wouldn't because they don't give a shit.

Going by this thread, I'm almost inclined to agree with you that we shouldn't bother!

It causes stress at home for some families, some don't care either way, there's little thanks for the staff (andnthe extra hours of unpaid overtime) and it doesn't appear to serve anyone other than ofsted!

They're not aimed at parents who don't work.

They're just organised during the chool day when children and teachers are there.

That means that parents who are also at work during those hours can't attend.

There's little we can do about that given that many parents use school as childcare while they work.

I was going to say this. My husband or my mum always had to pick these things up as I could never attend

I disagree that having an event every few weeks during school time where parents are invited is okay.

I think the reality is probably that most schools are hoping that most parents will he able to attend at least some of the events. So if you can't manage the Christmas show, there are opportunities to attend something else at another time.

Or to arrange for another family member to attend.

Some of the smaller ad hoc things, very few parents actually attend. It's about providing opportunities rather than expecting 100% parental attendance.

Big events like parents workshops or performances are usually arranged months in advance and so advance notice is given. Sometimes we'll have had an outside agency in to do some work with the children (eg art, drama, music) and we sometimes issue a last minute invitation toa 15 min showcase at the end of the day. We know it's last minute and we might only get half a dozen parents attend but, as far as often is concerned, we have included parents in their child's learning 🤷🏻‍♀️

We can't really give more notice for those things for various reasons.

Whenever we do things in the evening we alwaysget complaints - it's too late; they're not coming back out; they have other children to consider; their children have clubs to attend...

Schools can never get it right for some parents, many seem to judge by how it affects them, that their school should organise its events to suit them alone. If schools were to stop all shows and so on they would still be complaining, Maybe all parents should be expected to get involved and they would then see how much hard work goes into that bum-aching, boring hour!

I think this is the issue. Schools should have a handful of core events scheduled to take place throughout the year (such as Christmas nativity, sports day, end of year assembly etc). These dates should be given at the start of the year so that parents have ample notice. There is no need to be placing pressure on teachers and parents by hosting celebratory assemblies every single week! However, to say that teachers do not care about working parents is unfair. The vast majority of teachers are working parents themselves who are more than aware of how difficult it is to manage work and school expectations.

I mean, I get it's annoying but when else can they do them? Or do you want school staff to work even more hours outside of school time? There's no real answer to this problem.

YABU to feel RAGE towards the school, when you haven’t asked if they’d be able to give you the dates earlier. I’m not sure what you want them to do about a lot of the things you’ve mentioned. If you ask for more notice, then maybe you can request time off for the things. They won’t be able to let you know them all in advance, like the certificates for the week, but things like the school play will be in the calendar. Lots of people work during school hours, but obviously all the things that the kids do will take place during school hours.

@beforethecoffeegetscold I do not think a lot of teachers do get it. A lot seem to assume there will be another family member who can attend. I got asked about grandparents and Aunts a lot. My in laws were very elderly and could not go anywhere without carers, and even that was extremely difficult. My parents were both working full time and also had to give a fair bit of notice for annual leave. I did not have other people who could just attend something in the middle of the day with 2 weeks notice.
And I think a lot of teachers do not get this because apart from teaching they are used to family who do more middle class jobs that inherently have more flexibility.

For those wondering why there's so many events for parents- parental engagement is a huge Ofsted drive in recent years. Trust me, teachers aren't doing it to be annoying. The amount of time and effort, on top of the usual work, it takes to organise these things is ridiculous.

Anyway you will still get the same kids upset throughout the year at no one being able or in some cases willing to attend anything at the school. And teachers will keep on igno0ring or minimising the children's upset to cater to the middle class SAHM who love going up the school regularly.
And I genuinely think no one apart from my kids family cared about their upset.

That's quite an assumption.

Sigh

I get schools do it for ‘engagement’ but the thing is I didn’t feel very engaged by the events they did. I think a lot of them contributed to having a poor relationship with school.
The exception was DDs nursery teacher who was utterly amazing at this kind of thing and I still think fondly of her.

@Sherrystrull a teacher not that far above yours has said she gets it because she could never attend, so her DH or mum always had to attend. She does not get it. It is very different if one parent can never attend versus nobody at all ever attending. If My DH and mum could attend I would have been fine.

These things take place during the school day because that's when children and teachers are in school. They organise things to share with parents, why should other parents miss out just because you carnt go. Also who is going to pay the caretaker to lock up late? The cleaners who get the school ready for the next day? The heating bills etc just to keep some parents happy? I'm sure the OP and mantyzer won't we willing to play these extra costs.

Yes it's definitely true that a lot of presumptions can be made that all children have Grandparents who can be involved. My parents were in their early twenties when I was born, so even though I was in my thirties when I started my own family, my parents were still nowhere near retirement age and working full time jobs!

@Maxus I have never once said all these events should be in the evening. Not once.
But you are right, it is put on because some parents can make it and love them. It is not about what is best for the children. No other practice would be accepted if it routinely left children upset.

I would comment to the school re getting dates in advance for future reference

But, like it or not, OFSTED's expectations matter. Schools just can't ignore it even if we fully agree with you that it's pointless box ticking.

So what should schools do @mantyzer?

Do you bother to read any of the posts from teachers explaining why these events happen and that they do care? I'm retired now but I would have been very happy not to do most of these events and, as a single parent myself, I would not have wanted to do evening events instead.

This is not the teachers not getting it, they're just being inclusive, making suggestions about other possible family members.

They do not choose to do things at the last moment, that's HT level.