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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel RAGE against schools lack of care towards working parents?

654 replies

Stormy900 · 02/12/2023 07:42

I'm so, so angry!!!!
I'm a working parent.
I'm a nurse, so I can't WFH.
Why oh why oh why do primary schools set ALL their plays and productions during school hours when I, and so many other parents I know, are AT WORK!!!!
WHY don't schools factor this in????
My DC has a Christmas performance coming up and it is really important to him and to me that I'm there, it would fill my heart with absolute joy to see him. But school only informed us of the date 10 days ago. I have requested to take annual leave to attend it, but it has been refused by my manager because there are other colleagues on annual leave that day who have already requested, and I've been told my request is too short notice, but I've only recently been informed of the date by school. I'm absolutely heartbroken to not be able to attend. If I'd been given much more notice, I could have attended.
Also, another issue is HOW LITTLE NOTICE schools give parents about dates for events that parents are invited to. Sports day, parents being invited in to see DC's work and class displays, summer shows, Easter performances, class assemblies where my DC have speaking parts, and of course Christmas events. The school tells us no more than 2 weeks in advance maximum. Why?????
In my job, A/L has to be requested SIX WEEKS in advance because of staff rotas.
And don't get me started on children being given award certificates in assembly each week, which parents are invited to watch and the teachers TELL THE CHILDREN THEIR PARENTS ARE INVITED....they invite parents on the afternoon of THE DAY BEFORE THE CERTIFICATE ASSEMBLY!!!!
On Monday, school sent an email to me at 3pm, which I didn't pick up because I was managing a blood transfusion for a critically ill patient, so I picked it up later that day, as I can't access my emails as soon as they come in if I'm working. The invite was for 9am THE NEXT DAY!!!
There was no way I could attend at this level of short notice, as I was due to be at work the next morning, starting at 7am.
My little DD cried and cried. She said she wanted me there more than anything.
I have missed sooooooo many primary school events for my 2 DC because of horrific short notice from school. If I'd had dates in advance I could have attended them all.
WHY do schools do this???
They MUST KNOW what dates they're going to do events on. I simply refuse to believe they don't. They MUST have to plan their school calendar, activities, shows, performances, awards, in advance.
WHY do they assume all parents are eithet stay at home mothers or are in WFH jobs??
I'm SO angry!!!

OP posts:
Pineapplewaves · 02/12/2023 18:54

You need to complain to the school - ours sends out a list of dates for the whole year in September and again at the beginning of every term with any amendments/additions to allow parents to book time off.

I'm not sure evening performances in primary school would work, it would be past bedtime for some and lots of kids have activities after school. Also it's not compulsory to attend school events outside of normal hours so you'd get lots not turn up or want to take part.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 02/12/2023 19:18

TortolaParadise · 02/12/2023 17:18

The irony is that many schools do not allow time off for staff to go to their own children's trips/plays/events at the schools they attend🤔... yet expect 100% support from their parent/family community.

A decent school should be trying to accommodate releasing staff for an hour and a half/2 hrs to see their own children's nativities/leavers' assemblies. Mine asks that staff get their requested dates and times in in advance so that staff can try to cover each other's classes. Or they swap PPA schedules. Or the deputy head or head will cover for a while.

3amShopper · 02/12/2023 19:24

I'm a parent who works in my child's school, and I nearly missed their sports day (going on at the bottom of the field) because I had to cover a lesson.

I also have to hope that there ar staff enough to be in class so I can nip into the hall and watch their nativity (where I have to stand at the side or I get shit off other parents for being seated, as apparently I don't deserve it.)

Posters keep suggesting the PTA. They can (if they're anything like my school) do the square root of fuck all. We're there to raise money, that's it. They have no standing or ability to change anything.

My directed time is 9am-3:30pm. I'm a TA. The school do well out of me as I volunteer and go above and beyond. I'm there every day ay 8:30 and often don't leave till 4/4:30.

But evening performances would mean me having to beg childcare, doing unpaid overtime and missing out on my own kid. I already feel overworked and undervalued.

I love my job, but parents seem to want the moon on a stick, and then to batter you with aforementioned stick when it's not to their specifications (of which each one is different ) and I'm not prepared to deliver it anymore.

Gophergoesham · 02/12/2023 20:15

mantyzer · 02/12/2023 17:09

@Gophergoesham I am not criticising parents, but that is not true. When I was a child anything parents were invited to happened afterschool.

Not a single thing in my school career or my children’s school happens after school other than parents evening. I’ve never known a school to put on a nativity at night ever and I totally understand why. It’s full of 5 year olds who are most likely usually in bed.

If they did surely the people who worked at night then wouldn’t be able to attend - they clearly can’t please everyone so sticking to actual school hours where teachers are contracted makes the most sense.

Valeriekat · 02/12/2023 20:38

So what you are saying is that the teachers should work in the evenings so that you can attend school events?

mantyzer · 02/12/2023 21:26

I am saying that putting on lots of events during school days that parents are invited to knowing that some children will be upset and even crying because a parent can't attend, is shit planning and not child centred.

User79853257976 · 02/12/2023 21:29

Do you request the time off? I’m a teacher too.

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 02/12/2023 21:36

mantyzer · 02/12/2023 21:26

I am saying that putting on lots of events during school days that parents are invited to knowing that some children will be upset and even crying because a parent can't attend, is shit planning and not child centred.

I'm pretty sure planning an event when none of your staff are contracted to work and you're not able to offer overtime is shit planning too.

Iizzyb · 02/12/2023 21:38

Our school used to issue a calendar at the beginning of the year with all key dates in. Then they stopped doing it. Every time headteacher came to a PTA meeting we asked her to start up the calendar again . Eventually she has. I often get advance notice of events as on PTA and we might be asked to help.

Get involved with school & encourage better comms.

Ours are still pretty rubbish tbh but not as rubbish as they were a year or two ago x I really feel for you though xx

Sherrystrull · 02/12/2023 21:43

mantyzer · 02/12/2023 21:26

I am saying that putting on lots of events during school days that parents are invited to knowing that some children will be upset and even crying because a parent can't attend, is shit planning and not child centred.

So how do you propose schools ensure all parents can come?

Sherrystrull · 02/12/2023 21:45

Schools can't win. The only way to be 'child centred' is to do nothing. That way all children and parents will be equal as no one will do anything or miss anything.

meditrina · 02/12/2023 21:47

Valeriekat · 02/12/2023 20:38

So what you are saying is that the teachers should work in the evenings so that you can attend school events?

It often happens like at at secondary schools, so I don't think it's insuperable.

OldChinaJug · 02/12/2023 21:53

mantyzer · 02/12/2023 21:26

I am saying that putting on lots of events during school days that parents are invited to knowing that some children will be upset and even crying because a parent can't attend, is shit planning and not child centred.

OK, well you've posed the problem. What's your solution?

echt · 02/12/2023 21:58

meditrina · 02/12/2023 21:47

It often happens like at at secondary schools, so I don't think it's insuperable.

Show quote history

In secondary schools you don't get the whole year level/class events that happen in primary. Everything the OP refers to is a daytime event for children, e.g assemblies, for children who would be too tired to come back to evening versions and as other posters have said, just won't turn up.

Plus, teachers aren't contracted for evening sessions bar parents' evenings.

The lack of notice is inexcusable. All my work was in secondary schools, lots of them and they always ran to the calendar published at the start of the year. One reason for doing this is that staff have to organise their time too.

PollyPut · 02/12/2023 22:09

At our school, this was a problem too. So NHS staff made it quite clear to the office and the head that the NHS staff needed to give 6 weeks notice to have time off; they asked for the dates to be announced much earlier. The communication improved radically.

Make it clear to school that NHS staff need to give 6 weeks notice for time off. Write to the head and/or governors and politely explain, and ask for the calendar to be published as early as possible.

You should be surprised how much they want to help when the problem is explained to them.

Maxus · 02/12/2023 23:04

mantyzer · 02/12/2023 21:26

I am saying that putting on lots of events during school days that parents are invited to knowing that some children will be upset and even crying because a parent can't attend, is shit planning and not child centred.

Making young children come back in the evening to entertain adults is not child centered either.

Talipesmum · 02/12/2023 23:40

At the infant school ours went to, they held a nativity each year, one during the day and one at 6pm ish. Dates were given right at the start of term. As far as I could tell, as many kids were at the 6pm one as the daytime one. They did great. This was the only evening performance of the year. Very grateful for staff supporting and making it happen.

Junior school would do one evening performance per year group per hear, generally again 6.30pm ish. Not super late. Also a daytime version. And dates way in advance.

When I was little it was similar. Once per year a performance in the evening and a daytime version. Clearly not the same everywhere but it’s obviously not impossible.

TortolaParadise · 03/12/2023 02:03

CurlyhairedAssassin · 02/12/2023 19:18

A decent school should be trying to accommodate releasing staff for an hour and a half/2 hrs to see their own children's nativities/leavers' assemblies. Mine asks that staff get their requested dates and times in in advance so that staff can try to cover each other's classes. Or they swap PPA schedules. Or the deputy head or head will cover for a while.

Show quote history

Yes, I agree this should be what happens but some schools are less than decent and accommodating.

HollaHolla · 03/12/2023 03:45

This sounds like poor organisation in your school. But, Y’know, your kids will survive you not being at events.

Our mum was a teacher at another school. Our dad was in the military, so away a lot. No living grandparents nearby. We accepted no one could come. My mum once managed to get one day off (had to be approved by the director of education!) for my senior school prize giving, when i was 17, and I got dux of the school.

We survived - and my siblings and I have good relationships with our parents.

OldChinaJug · 03/12/2023 08:17

TortolaParadise · 03/12/2023 02:03

Yes, I agree this should be what happens but some schools are less than decent and accommodating.

Show quote history

It depends on staffing levels generally and, as we have seen from so many other threads, the DHT or HT ae quite often called out to deal with severe behavioural issues during the day. They wouldn't be able to cover classes.

Purpleturtle45 · 03/12/2023 08:21

Have you communicated your thoughts to the school? If not that would be the best place to start. I am a teacher and we give out a calendar with all important dates at the start of every school year, as does my children's school.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the staff and pupils to attend school for a performance outside of school hours however the notice thing is definitely an issue.

Saschka · 03/12/2023 08:24

Same boat (in fact I wonder if it is the same school) - less than two weeks notice for: school show (which they have been preparing for since half term), orchestra concert (prepping for since September), sports day last year (which was joint with two other schools in the federation, so definitely planned well in advance).

The school show is next Thursday. They announced the date and costume requirements on Friday night. So less than 7 days notice, and everyone has to spend this weekend making a costume. I’m on call all weekend, so can’t. DS is the one who suffers here.

Ostagazuzulum · 03/12/2023 08:26

Same. I work in emergency services. Getting annual leave can be a total bun fight at best of times. Our school likes to sometimes tell us the week before. Very rarely is it more than a fortnights notice. A typical effort is start of the week telling us it's Xmas jumper day or that they will be doing something for children in need and they need something specific for it. Same with plays and parents evening. School
Sports day is on web page so I found that by accident but at least it's lots of notice.

It's very frustrating!!!

Maxus · 03/12/2023 08:28

To me it seems that parents who want evening performances to fit in with them are not thinking about what's best for the children. School is supposed to be what works best for the child. Being forced to go back to do evening performances is not what's best for the child. In primary school performances include they whole class. I secondary they do have evening performances but they do not include every child, only kids who chose to do so. Also in secondary most kids can get themselves back to school so if a parent carnt go due to younger kids, work etc it dosent affect the performance.

boomtickhouse · 03/12/2023 08:48

dressedforcomfort · 02/12/2023 08:10

Schools can't win.

If they held the production at 6pm they'd get complaints that the little ones were too tired and it would keep them up too late. Plus teachers have their own kids to look after in the evenings.

Honestly, I appreciate you do an important job and have a very tricky shift pattern. But schools absolutely cannot please every parent. And as a former school governor, they are dealing with SO many other bigger issues, (lack of resourcing, families needing referrals to food banks, kids with SEND needs etc etc.)

This.

it's well known that working FT with kids in primary comes with sacrifices. Thats why people choose flexible / PT work. Unfortunately this is one of them.