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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Grandad's Pride is being read on milkshake on channel 5 - not acceptable! AIBU

513 replies

grandadspride · 01/12/2023 09:13

Milkshake story den.

Why are we reading books about pride, gender and drag to pre-school children.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
nothingcomestonothing · 03/12/2023 10:46

Can I check my bingo card? So far on this thread we've had:

Right wing ✅
Bigots ✅
Homophobes ✅
Paranoid ✅
Pearl clutching/out of touch with modern life ✅
Don't look if you're so offended ✅
And now Section 28 ✅

The ways in which some posters try to shame and silence women concerned about child safeguarding are depressingly predictable.

So again I'll ask, why do under fives need to see illustrations of men in fetish wear?

Whybobbins · 03/12/2023 10:50

‘Would you say that if Nightmare on Elm Street was being shown on the Milkshake slot? ‘

😅😅😅😅 I’d say that’s not going to happen, and probably not something you should worried about?
and then I would say - turn the tv off, maybe read a book instead? Or pick another channel?

Canonlythinkofthisone · 03/12/2023 11:05

Whybobbins · 03/12/2023 10:50

‘Would you say that if Nightmare on Elm Street was being shown on the Milkshake slot? ‘

😅😅😅😅 I’d say that’s not going to happen, and probably not something you should worried about?
and then I would say - turn the tv off, maybe read a book instead? Or pick another channel?

Why is it not going to happen?

Because its inappropriate for children obvs.

Duh

nothingcomestonothing · 03/12/2023 11:05

Whybobbins · 03/12/2023 10:50

‘Would you say that if Nightmare on Elm Street was being shown on the Milkshake slot? ‘

😅😅😅😅 I’d say that’s not going to happen, and probably not something you should worried about?
and then I would say - turn the tv off, maybe read a book instead? Or pick another channel?

Well a few years ago I wouldn't have thought a book with men in fetish wear being on the little kids' slot on TV was something I needed to worry about, but here we are.

Why do you think it's ok for pictures of men in fetish wear to be shown to small children?

heathspeedwell · 03/12/2023 11:13

It's pretty frightening to see some people on here being so naive about paedophiles. And this almost conscious decision to turn a blind eye is precisely how so many of them get away with what they do.

Helleofabore · 03/12/2023 11:17

There is a significant issue when adults cannot recognise the process of normalising fetish within society. And when each sexual boundary has been lowered, the next one to be lowered is more extreme. All sexual boundaries being lowered are harmful.

If a toddler doesn’t understand that seeing people in their kink wear is ok, for example, if a toddler is patting a man in a rubber dog costume at an event, why is that ok? At what age does this action become not ok? If this book was for 6-7 year olds, would it still be ok to see people in BDSM gear?

Where is the boundary? Or is it that some people (generally) simply cannot recognise that children accept the messages that people they trust give them and when it is then built upon by seeing another similar message being read to them or being accepted on their behalf it becomes normalised?

ArthurbellaScott · 03/12/2023 11:34

Would it be okay for a man in fetish gear like that depicted in the book to read this book to children?

Would it be okay for children to wear that outfit on World Book Day, where children dress as book characters?

Would it be okay for a school to take children to an event where men are wearing fetish gear?

StephanieSuperpowers · 03/12/2023 11:47

Thank goodness there's an opportunity for children to interact with the fetish community. They have so much to gain from it.

ArthurbellaScott · 03/12/2023 11:52

Kids at Pride.

https://twitter.com/lorgair/status/1647456869638868992

StephanieSuperpowers · 03/12/2023 11:59

ArthurbellaScott · 03/12/2023 11:52

Beautiful. Openness, tolerance. Children have so much to learn from adults in sexwear. Like about how it's fine when adults do sexually explicit stuff around children. So much education.

HiddenLegoOuch · 03/12/2023 12:21

Universalsnail · 03/12/2023 09:36

Because the "evidence" he is a creep that has done that is speculation, putting two and two together, assuming things to fit the "he's a creep" narrative, and not actual evidence. I am not going to get into a panic and ban my child from reading a book or sending angry messages to a TV channel that has a positive message based on such speculation when even if the absolute worst is true, there will be no impact on my child because only the illustrator, some other peados and people obsessed with gender politics on the internet seem to know about, and that is even if it is true, because a lot of the comments here a putting stuff together like a mumsnet version of a you tube conspiracy video. I think the discourse around this is far more damaging then a drawing of a map labelled a map and some heart sunglasses in an illustration.

As for the "fetish gear' drawing. If I am honest I just don't have a problem with either of those pictures. It's a man fully covered wearing clothes. If I took my kid to a pride parade they would see actual men dressed like that. If I took them to a festival they would see grown women dressed like that be it more glittery. It's not a drawing with someone on a gimp suit or a ball gag or wearing a strap on. Honestly I think that image is a none issue and children see far worse watching music videos.

”It’s not a drawing with someone in a gimp suit or a ball gag or wearing a strap on”

No, those drawings are not there - because they have happened in REAL LIFE in front of children. Where people who are meant to be safeguarding children are too scared/woke/allied to say how utterly inappropriate and sexualised it is.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/man-gimp-suit-shakespeares-globe-children-b2380638.html

Man in gimp suit allowed to watch Shakespeare’s Globe play with children in audience

Theatregoer watches The Comedy of Errors dressed in full latex fetish suit and mask

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/man-gimp-suit-shakespeares-globe-children-b2380638.html

Helleofabore · 03/12/2023 14:09

ArthurbellaScott · 03/12/2023 12:32

Let's not forget Caba Baba Rave, which featured strippers and fetish gear for babies.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4754259-caba-baba-rave-take-your-baby-to-watch-nearly-naked-men-in-fetish-gear

I remember just how many parents were telling us that it doesn’t matter because their children will never remember going.

How many repetitive experiences such as the cabaret and reading this book and going to parades does it take before someone realises that this is now normalised for a child ?

ArthurbellaScott · 03/12/2023 14:24

Yes, it's an odd selective belief.

It's common to expose babies to sounds in the womb to develop parent-child bonds, or to consider it beneficial to 'socialise' a child by sending him or her to nursery very young, or to think that surrounding a baby or toddler with music or foreign languages are going to lay down early associations and neuronal pathways and networks and the foundations of later learning and affiliations and enjoyment.

Then suddenly a baby surrounded by strippers and men in thongs gyrating, or men in leather fetish puppy outfits and bondage gear is 'not going to have any effect'. That the ignorance of childhood will have some magical protective effect, as if children are impervious to influence or manipulation or - well. Grooming.

It seems sometimes people credit babies and children with sentience or not according to what they want to get out of the interaction, rather than what they think is actually beneficial for the baby/child.

Children cannot consent to sexual interactions. They can't understand or appreciate sexual dynamics or jokes or displays or postures.

No child should be exposed to sexualised behaviour, and the fact that this book is so lauded, feted and celebrated should be very concerning.

TheKeatingFive · 03/12/2023 15:34

Then suddenly a baby surrounded by strippers and men in thongs gyrating, or men in leather fetish puppy outfits and bondage gear is 'not going to have any effect'

I don't think the people saying this genuinely believe it though. I think they've internalised this idea that all 'progressive' movement is positive and it's easier to keep parroting that comforting thought than do the hard thinking.

But ultimately, we are all responsible for evaluating what we should and shouldn't tolerate as a society and identifying when those lines are being crossed. It is not good enough to stick heads in the sand here.

TheCheerfulNihilist · 05/12/2023 05:55

Universalsnail "As for the "fetish gear' drawing. If I am honest I just don't have a problem with either of those pictures. It's a man fully covered wearing clothes. If I took my kid to a pride parade they would see actual men dressed like that."

Then you need to have a serious look at your boundaries. Because that is, quite frankly, fucked up.

Helleofabore · 05/12/2023 08:56

Victims of child sex abuse often results in lowered boundaries around sex.

What is important is recognising the cycle of ever lowering sexual boundaries and breaking it.

DonnaBanana · 05/12/2023 12:40

Is the problem the fetish costumes or the intent of the writers and characters? For example, what if the people who played the Tellytubbies or Mr Blobby was actually secretly turned on by it in a fetish like way does that mean Tellytubbies or Mr Blobby is bad for kid? Without knowing the underlying in tension of the authors of these books and the characters stories it's hard to judge perhaps??

SwingTheMonkey · 05/12/2023 13:11

DonnaBanana · 05/12/2023 12:40

Is the problem the fetish costumes or the intent of the writers and characters? For example, what if the people who played the Tellytubbies or Mr Blobby was actually secretly turned on by it in a fetish like way does that mean Tellytubbies or Mr Blobby is bad for kid? Without knowing the underlying in tension of the authors of these books and the characters stories it's hard to judge perhaps??

I can’t even pretend to understand what you mean…

What has an actor in a costume who privately enjoys BDSM got to do with an actual picture, in a toddlers book, of an old man wearing bondage gear?

Are you suggesting that perhaps the old man just wears the bondage gear because it feels supportive of his aging joints? That he’s not sexually turned on by it, he just finds the black leather and studs keeps him warm when his winter fuel allowance has run out?

Would you mind explaining?

DonnaBanana · 05/12/2023 14:13

SwingTheMonkey · 05/12/2023 13:11

I can’t even pretend to understand what you mean…

What has an actor in a costume who privately enjoys BDSM got to do with an actual picture, in a toddlers book, of an old man wearing bondage gear?

Are you suggesting that perhaps the old man just wears the bondage gear because it feels supportive of his aging joints? That he’s not sexually turned on by it, he just finds the black leather and studs keeps him warm when his winter fuel allowance has run out?

Would you mind explaining?

I mean that the clothing is not in and of itself a danger to anyone. Like if I wear a short skirt (not so much post DC!) or high heels it does not mean I am doing it for sexual reasons. What matters to me is if the book is putting sexual motivations on to the characters rather than them just dressing up for the fun of it and to have a laugh. Is a man playing widow twankey at a pantomime necessarily trying to promote a sexual agenda or get some weird kicks? Of course not but if they acted like they were THEN it is a problem

SwingTheMonkey · 05/12/2023 14:40

DonnaBanana · 05/12/2023 14:13

I mean that the clothing is not in and of itself a danger to anyone. Like if I wear a short skirt (not so much post DC!) or high heels it does not mean I am doing it for sexual reasons. What matters to me is if the book is putting sexual motivations on to the characters rather than them just dressing up for the fun of it and to have a laugh. Is a man playing widow twankey at a pantomime necessarily trying to promote a sexual agenda or get some weird kicks? Of course not but if they acted like they were THEN it is a problem

Oh stop!

One wears BDSM clothing for sexual reasons.

You don’t see people dressed in a leather thong and bra/harness(?), walking along the street*. It can in no way be compared to wearing a short skirt or high heels.

*Unless you happen to be at a pride event - which I wouldn’t personally consider appropriate to have my children at.

Helleofabore · 05/12/2023 14:49

DonnaBanana · 05/12/2023 14:13

I mean that the clothing is not in and of itself a danger to anyone. Like if I wear a short skirt (not so much post DC!) or high heels it does not mean I am doing it for sexual reasons. What matters to me is if the book is putting sexual motivations on to the characters rather than them just dressing up for the fun of it and to have a laugh. Is a man playing widow twankey at a pantomime necessarily trying to promote a sexual agenda or get some weird kicks? Of course not but if they acted like they were THEN it is a problem

This is a rather ridiculous attempt to dismiss sexual fetish imagery in a toddler's book. If you cannot tell the difference between the motivation for wearing BDSM gear and a short skirt and high heels, I think that you might want to consider how low your sexual boundaries are and what you are accepting on behalf of your children.

There is absolutely no reason for any person in a toddler's book to be portrayed in BDSM gear. None. WTAF!

I cannot believe that I have just seen yet another attempt to rationalise sexual fetishes in a children's book.

Helleofabore · 05/12/2023 14:51

SwingTheMonkey · 05/12/2023 14:40

Oh stop!

One wears BDSM clothing for sexual reasons.

You don’t see people dressed in a leather thong and bra/harness(?), walking along the street*. It can in no way be compared to wearing a short skirt or high heels.

*Unless you happen to be at a pride event - which I wouldn’t personally consider appropriate to have my children at.

Edited

Yet, Swingthemonkey on the thread earlier this year where a group of male people went to Ikea dressed in their pup play masks and leads (I believe there was even a butt plug tail on one), there were posters on MN who declared that this was perfectly fine. Nothing to see here.

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