Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

[Dad0f1]

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

I grew up in a multiracial country so as a child would regularly be brought to Muslim mosques, Taoist temples and Christian churches – MN would no doubt freak out about the former 2 haha (or maybe not in London?). Anyway it's not really something anyone does as an adult anymore apart from on festive holidays, so it was good exposure.

I'd say maybe balance it out with bringing him to other religious places and ceremonies to have a look

I think the children in Singapore get an all round education when it comes to religious studies, singaporean. I don't see why anyone here would freak out about it. We are a multicultural society in England.

I think it’s people who a)struggle with nuance in their thinking and b) don’t have a varied experience of different localities.

We could choose cofe or Rc. We have 6 faith schools to 2 non den schools in this area. Neather non den school is within walking distance, both are over subscribed. Both are consistently labelled as ‘satisfactory’ by ofsted…

and people can’t see why I would prefer the ofsted good school, on my street, where my child will be one of 20 in a class instead of 32, and of those 20 he is related to or friends with several!

YABVU for all the reasons posted above.

You seem to be in a very small minority OP. I'm inclined to agree that it would have been better not to have sent your child to a CofE school. However, I'm intrigued by the nature of the service which I have never heard of primary schools attending en masse. To all those raising whether you will allow him to take part in/attend a nativity play or sing carols, it's really not the same. Will the vicar be telling these very young children the wafer he gives them is the body of Christ? Because, whether the majority saying you are unreasonable accept it, that is what communion is all about. The body and blood of Christ. Most adults understand the metaphor but small children? It seems very extreme to me and I don't blame the OP for finding it unacceptable.

Christians on these threads never respond as to what the many many parents should do who live in more rural communities and have no choice of school except a cofe option.

The church are foolish. The growing resentment of excessive attempts to proselytise through schools are, against the backdrop of rapid dwindling of christianity in the uk, more likely to lead to movements to remove schools from church control than to successfully increase members of the faith.

There is more chance for the survival of the church as an establishment if they accept more of a community role focussed on charity, kindness, musical appreciation, supporting families etc but without the more direct religious elements such as worship, bible study, prayer etc.

I fear you're mistaking the external for the essence here wrt Catholic rites and social/ secular customs, and also for CoE confirmation, which you're dismissing as not that important.

You may not have any suspicion that you're mining a seam of puritan responses to Catholicism here and a post-Imperial sense of downplaying the CoE's relevance, but I think I can detect the origin of some of your thoughts here to those elements of British religious history.

What you're wearing or what you're doing after the sacramental service is not the essential part of the sacrament. There is no more and no less virtue in wearing a white dress and veil or a pair of jeans to receive a sacrament or participate in a church service.

The CoE lost a good deal of wind from its sails as post-Imperial reality set in in Britain. It had been strongly associated with the Imperial imperative and the colonial project, and suffered when that particular nationalistic spirit faded. In particular, the social and often political pressure to appear to be loyal to the CoE disintegrated, but it had been a very strong force in British life from the time of the religious wars of the early centuries of the Reformation.

@JaniceJanice OP asked AIBU, I relied yes. You don't have to agree with me, you clearly disagree , that's fine - I don't need to be baited by some random who's opinion is insignificant to me. Have a nice evening.

Sorry, I presumed people who posted publicly on a discussion forum were open to having a discussion.

@Benibidibici
I have three churches close to me.
One - dug up the deceased and sold off the land to fund a housing development and new church building, now used as a community, pre school and event hall.
Two- ripped out the pews and is now a cafe, event hall.
Three - sold off the building, dug up the deceased, built a housing estate.

Not sure the community are behind, grave removal and new builds...sure the church got lots of cash though.

They tend to behave differently for others than when they are most comfortable with their parents.

Not all 4 year olds would be confident enough to say no, especially to a teacher

Not all 4 year olds would even be aware that they can say no, they'd just do it because everyone else is doing it.

Not to mention the fact that even if it is a 4 year olds choice, they are 4. They aren't capable of making those decisions yet which is why it is ultimately the parents choice at that age.

I think when people hate organised religions and what they think they stand for, they should really stay away from them. That includes schools. Someone upthread said why should she go out of her area when her council tax pays for the local church school. If this is the level of intelligence then there is nothing anyone can say- it’s the same kind of ignorance that says tax payers money go to church schools and should be stopped - are not church goers also tax payers? Are not all children entitled to an education?

My kids go to a CofE school with all different faiths. No one pulls their kids out of nativity or going to church.

I don't think it would do him any harm to attend the service, he is young and won't be overly concerned about religion.

Tax not council tax

Yep, all children are entitled to an education and shouldn’t have to drive to a different town to get one when there are 2 schools within 5 minutes walk. Its bad for the environment for one thing!

That faith school may be the only education option available. Every child has the right to an education, regardless of belief.

Yabu to send your child to a church school & then complain that the pupils are participating in a church service

are not church goers also tax payers? Are not all children entitled to an education?

Yes, everyone is entitled to an education. Everyone can apply to whatever school they want. And everyone can withdraw their children from worship of they want too

This kind of rubbish drives me mad I am married to a Reverend. He puts so much effort into visiting her Cof E schools in our area. Sorting out child friendly services so the children can enjoy church and feel welcome. It's parents like you that make a mockery of a Cof E school. I never say it publicly but why on God's earth do you send a child to a Cof E school then act like an absolute arse and withdraw them from religious elements. So hypocritical. You ring up my house when when your child needs to get to the C of E high school pleading for them to be confirmed even though they've never attended church nor do you have any intention of ever attending. Mybhusband then says nothing enrols your child onto a confirmation course... you moan they have to attend that too. Then they are confirmed my husband buys each child a bible from his own money.....and never sees rhe child again. Take your child out of the school if you don't like it .

A good point. What's going to happen when the child is secondary school age?

why on God's earth do you send a child to a Cof E school then act like an absolute arse and withdraw them from religious elements. ....... because there are no suitable state non-aligned schools in the area - that is why. Because some parents do not want their children involved in religious activities.

I understand that this is what you want for your children; but equally you must be open-minded enough to recognise that it is not what everyone wants for theirs. If they have no choice but to send the child to a CofE school because the state does not provide any other suitable one, I ask you what they should do? This will involve you putting yourself in the position of another who does not share your beliefs.

In non-denominational schools, it's not unusual for parents to opt out of acts of worship and that's accepted because they're not faith schools. (I worked in non-denom schools in Scotland.)

Have you missed all the posts about faith schools being the only option? If everyone in our town who doesn’t go to church stopped sending their children to church schools we would have to fit 8 schools worth of children into 2 schools… and the faith schools would close because there would be so few children left.

If your husband doesn’t want to provide those services then I suggest he takes it up with his bishop- plenty of c of e vicars require church attendance for confirmation.

If you don’t want people to ring up your house then don’t use that as a contact number for your husband (I’ve never known a vicar to do this because they have all run their offices from home). My MIL stopped parishioners ever calling their home or knocking on the door by being rude to everyone who tried and telling them to go away. You could do that.

Also, there can be an enormous difference in the attitude and culture of the faith school and the church it is affiliated with. You might be happy with the religious education your child gets at school but not with the culture of the church that school goes to. They can be at totally different places in terms of inclusivity etc.