Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

[Dad0f1]

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

They only mean something if they have been blessed by a priest in a communion service. Until that happens, they are just wafers. Our vicar used to feed the stale past their use by date unblessed wafers to the pigeons.

@Hardtime "You won't meet a Christian who thinks Christmas is more important than Easter faith-wise"

I am aware of that. But you said "people" not "Christians."

Sorry- that was directed to @lardycake. Apologies @Hardtime

I'd kind of assumed they were going to be blessed tbh. I guess they might not be.

@BabaBarrio " If this is your objective, why are you withdrawing him from an age appropriate way to learn about Christianity?"

Because there is a difference between learning about and.....Oh, I give up.

@Xmaswomble some of us don't have a choice about church schools. The nearest 8 primaries to us are all C of E or RC VA schools. In rural communities, you don't have a lot of choice.

To correct someone else upthread, schools are meant to have an act of broadly Christian worship, but even Ofsted seem not to care about it. We have 2 religious assemblies per year in my secondary. Other assemblies are about moral or local themes or issues, such as collecting for the local food bank. We were judged Outstanding again last year.

But if you’re not Catholics confession(reconciliation) and first communion wouldn’t be open to you. I think possibly something has been lost in the communication because you must be accepted into the church first. (Baptised)

I'd let him go, if you think he'd enjoy it. Can't imagine it'll make any difference to his eventually having religious beliefs or not.

Accept that faith is an important make up of the school and respect it? They aren’t being indoctrinated…its not a cult 😂

It was probably the Christingle service. Our school always went just before advent. Best part of the school year, getting an orrange with skewered jellybabies in it. 50 years onand I still, remember them.

YABVU. You chose to send him to that school so can't pick and choose what aspects he takes part in. If you don't want any religion then send him to a different school.

@Malbecfan YES the same where I live, I would have to drive miles to get to a school that wasn't COE.

Why should I when every local school is funded by my LA...who I pay towards?

My village church is now a preschool and events hall...local congregation for church was 4 members. Religion is outdated . The vicar swoops in for school events and I'm embarrassed for her, 4. active members and she still holds court in a school due to historic crap.

The DofE stipulates that all state schools have daily collective worship, but in most non faith schools assemblies go ahead but few are actually religious. My children have not had Christian worship in any of their secondary schools. Possibly in primary.

“The head of a secondary school in the south-west, who asked not to be named, said most school leaders of non-faith schools fudged the law when planning assemblies. “We all dance around it, but in truth it’s not collective worship. It’s more like group pastoral messaging.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2022/dec/03/schools-call-for-end-to-archaic-daily-worship-following-uk-census-results

You're singling him out and I don't think that's fair. Both of mine went to C of E schools and had great fun at these services at that age. They are both young adults now and neither believe in god.

In case it helps anyone on the thread, if you or your child would like to go to mass or holy communion without partaking in the wine and host, you can. You would usually be welcome to join the same queue in the aisle for a blessing - when you reach the front, you cross your arms and bow your head (or say "blessing please" if you prefer!), and the priest/vicar places a hand on your head and says a short, one-sentence blessing. It's a ritual with no commitments or pressure if your child would like to join in with their friends.

I don't know why you think I need a primer on my own religion or protestantism, or the differences between the two paths.
(And I still want to know where you learned that Catholics believe that hell awaits the unbaptised in the afterlife).

If the child of an atheist participates in a church service organised by a Christian church of any stripe, regardless of how 'relaxed' or inconsequential the services and prayers and symbolic you think it is, that child is being told by authority figures in a world where the child is told every day that authority must be trusted, that a certain set of beliefs and practices are acceptable, correct, right, normal, they're what everyone else believes and does - and so this church, which runs a school he may or may not have had any choice about attending, places him in conflict with the philosophy of his parents.

You clearly see the CoE as an uplifting place to gather, requiring no particular beliefs or creed or opinion on God, etc. of anyone who attends a service. To an atheist it might as well be a Mormon temple or the Jehovas Witnesses or Masonic Hall. Can you not see that?

Atheists do not believe in any of it or see a need for any of it - the buildings, the books, the ceremonial, the robes, the reverence, the hymns, the wafers and grape juice... It is all irrelevant to them. They live their lives without reference to any of it. Catholic and protestant churches and beliefs alike are equally removed from their take on life.

And? So you cannot learn by voluntary participation?

You have denied another child a Christian education when you had alternative options.

You’re lucky to have options. Most children are allocated the nearest available school space. This might actually not be near.

You wanted him to go to a church school, and then withdrew him from the church services?

Jeez lol

And the inevitable singed hair! We were always instructed not to wear hairspray or mousse for Christingle because some kids and candles don't mix! 😁

@mathanxiety

Protestantism as a whole I’ve found is a whole lot less labour intensive.

I was amazed when I first went to my husbands church and there was all this participation all the way through both in physical movement and the need for reciting things.

In my church, you go in sit down, few prayers, few hymns, sit through the sermon. And that’s it.

It doesn’t make the religion any less valid just because it’s less complicated, less ritualistic and less demanding.

The point of a Protestant school as others have said, is to give a good moral grounding, and to develop a relationship with god and your neighbour, to understand Christianity. To support children in their faith but not to exclude others.

Whether you commit to that religion is entirely your choice as a mid teen to adult and there is not the same sort of social pressure.

For example catholic sacraments for children are almost put on a par with weddings - special outfits, celebratory party, money and gifts given. The children can feel pressure to join the big group of friends and they obviously are motivated by the money and party etc to take part.

What I experienced watching some friends get confirmed was they went to a few classes at church circa 14, then they turned up at church as normal in jeans and were confirmed as an adjunct to the church service, not a huge thing. But important for them personally to make that commitment.

Many faith schools require evidence of church attendance as part of their admissions policy. Which of course many families do until they've been accepted. It would be interesting to know if this applies for OP, because to then subsequently withdraw from the Christmas service would be a bit cheeky!
Regardless of whether this is the case, I think if you choose a faith school you do so in full knowledge that there will be a stronger faith element and it demonstrates respect by embracing the community your child is part of for 7 yrs.
My son has been to both CofE and bog standard state school. There wasn't really much difference, both did the Nativity and both did church services. Even in secondary they still do a church service. He's not been indoctrinated in any way!

It isn’t voluntary when they are 4.

I don’t understand the ‘why send your child to church school if you don’t want them to go to church’ line- people choose schools for loads of reasons you have to balance against each other.

The only single form, ofsted rated good school in our town is 5 houses down from us on our street. My son’s cousin and friends were going there. It’s RC.

To get to an equally suitable school in terms of size and support available we would have had to drive half an hour away, and my son wouldn’t have had his cousin and friends with him.

so, we put up with the religious nature of the school, but removed him from going to mass. That was the balance we were comfortable with and it didn’t do anybody any harm 🤷‍♀️

I went to a church school as a child and taught in church schools for all of my 20 year teaching career. My parents were both atheists and so am I. I do have a life long love of church buildings, church music and grave stone epitaphs. The Victorian ones are especially fabulous. You are denying him a lovely experience. He cannot make a reasoned decision as an older child if he has never been. Absolutely daft.