Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

[Dad0f1]

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

Hence why it’s ’The Holidays’ for many as it’s inclusive of other faiths or non religious folk

Christ mass is definitely Christ ian !

Seems a bit OTT but not a big deal really either way. There were a couple of children who didn't attend services in my schools C of E school due to their parent's religious views (I think one Muslim and another atheist parents) - other children just accepted it, as did they, and it was all fine.

I'm atheist but didn't withdraw my son. He seemed to very much believe that God/Jesus created everything whilst in reception and went through a phase of 'testing us' e.g. asking questions about where things came from/worked and when given an answer based on scientific evidence would get quite adamant that we were wrong and God made it! I just told him that I didn't believe that but it was fine that he did. Only lasted a few months really. I think he enjoyed going to church, as did I, when I was a child but I can't remember ever believing (just wanting to at times). I think DS stopped believing by year one. Not sure - he definitely doesn't believe now.

YANBU it's your choice if you want your children to take part in any worship or not. I withdraw my children from religious activity at school and its never been an issue for them the teachers or anyone else.

YABVVU
How can your son make his own choices if you remove the very thing to think about and base a decision on!
Im sure he’ll feel singled out which isn’t nice at 4, left behind at school while all his friends get to enjoy a new learning experience and I’m sure you’re now labelled in the staff room as ‘that parent’.

We were in the same position OP except there are no non-church affiliated schools within a 15 minute drive of my house. We sent our DDs and told them to listen respectfully, sing along, but what they chose to believe was up to them. Let your little one join in. I think the line we took was "some people believe ..."

Going to a church primary school made both of them complete religious sceptics by the time they were 11. However, as members of secondary school and uni college chapel choirs, they have sung in countless Evensongs, Eucharists and other services. They love singing, they love the music, but to them the religious parts are where they can sit down or snooze quietly.

'The Holidays' is so silly! We literally have holidays for summer, Easter, half-term, yada yada.

Like it or not, Christmas is the correct term to use. I will never, ever wish anyone happy holidays unless they're off on their annual hoolie in Benidorm 🙄

Further to add to this @mathanxiety

This video might give some clarity

You are viewing this through a catholic lens. If your child were to partake in communion in a Protestant church that would not at all be appropriate as your child has taken catholic sacraments and is confirmed or on their way to being confirmed catholic. And you view communion as literal rather than symbolic so it’s a different thing.

We are from a mixed marriage but attend Protestant church where it is more relaxed and people from all backgrounds are welcome to learn without pressure. DC go to a catholic school and we have removed them from taking part in sacraments as that would “sign them up”, but they still pray, bless themselves and learn about Catholicism.

It IS a religious festival - the clue is in the Christ mass bit!

The Christ bit was tacked onto the pagan midwinter celebrations - for most people it is still not a religious festival.

I can fully appreciate the symbolism of an innocent child being hounded by the contemporary religions and political groups; and the fact that this weak child went on to do some good things. In that spirit I tolerate the bolting on of a religion to an existing festival.

I am a Catholic. I am aware of the sacraments and all of that.

You are completely wrong that RCs believe if you're not baptized you're going to hell.

Where did you learn this?
In RE class?

You're wrong about my perspective being irrelevant too.

I hold certain beliefs about Christianity and so does the OP. They're not the same beliefs, but the impact on my child and on his would be the same if I were to allow my child to attend a church service where wafers and grape juice were distributed and prayers my child was not familiar with were recited.

It's interesting that people are simultaneously saying CoE religious observance is simultaneously an important and integral part of a CoE school and the OP should have realised that when choosing a school, but at the same time saying the church service, the praying, and the distribution of Communion are just a meaningless, fun outing and the OP is a wet blanket.

Essentially, the OP is being castigated for taking a church service seriously, which is rather ironic.

The OP had a choice. A 2 form secular school. But that wasn’t good enough for some reason.
3 schools to choose from- actually really lucky in the UK. Many people live in an area where only 1 is available. That’s why you plan where to live when having kids and choosing a catchment is very important.
But so many people just blindly do what they fancy without a thought for the future and then do stupid stuff like choosing a CofE school -&; making their 4 year old stay in school on their own with another teacher whilst the ready of their classmates happily walk off to church together. Yes brilliant- I’m sure the kid won’t remember feeling different to everyone else each time and not understanding why. NOT

But you can celebrate Yule or Solstice as an alternative - no one is forced to bolt on the religious bit and call it Christmas

I can answer this @TomeTome

The other school was shit academically.

The RC school will push religion and partaking of sacraments more strongly, thus signing up to the religion for life, the CofE wouldn’t it’s more peripheral than central to the education. If that makes sense (having gone to a Protestant school and having kids at a catholic one).

Some knickers could probably do with untwisting here.

My kids were brought up as regular churchgoers, Sunday school, Communion, the works.

DC too still replied thus to a question on her RE mock GCSE:

Q. Where was Jesus born?
A. Jerusalem!!!!!

Nope you're overthinking things. If you are a dad get a job or a hobby. You're children don't have to suffer on the altar of your beliefs. Fast forward a a few decades and their partners will be giving you a swerve at events, visits if you insist on trudging down this self righteous road

But surely if they were taking it seriously they'd not have sent their child there in the 1st place?

@mathanxiety

From the priest who interviewed us prior to our marriage and sent a dispensation off to Rome to allow us to marry.

And from my friend who is a theologian with post grad level qualification.

But whatever you think.

Yes you are. You put your son in a church school then don't want him to participate.

As a Muslim I went to Infant school and primary that were both Catholic. And attended all events / services and ust didn't partake. I had non muslim friends there who didn't partake. It wasn't a big deal at all.
But whatever you both feel comfortable with.

This

Hahahaa yes YABVU. And completely ridiculous. I imagine they had a good laugh about you in the staff room! I say this as an atheist with two children in CofE church schools.

Even if you send your child to a secular school, the law requires a "daily act of collective worship" which is "mainly or wholly Christian".

Very confused.
No way would anyone not confirmed be offered the wafer in any CofE church I have been to. If you're not confirmed then you get a blessing.

YANBU. I loathe religion and do not want my child to be brainwashed at school either by being forced/ ‘guided’ into prayer. We have one non C of E primary in our locality. It’s also the best school so everyone wants to send their kids there. And unlike a C of E or RC school your religious preferences aren’t taken into account.

Also, this. Your child would have been able to line up for a blessing but would have been optional!

Therefore you don't celebrate Christmas or Easter? At all? I don't like the commercialisation that accompanies both, but I wouldn't refuse to let my child join in with the usual festivities.