Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

[Dad0f1]

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

YABU - atheist here, DH non-practicing Catholic, unchristened DCs went to CofE primary school as it was our local school. I just treated church services as an interesting (or boring) experience for them. They know I'm an atheist and that their dad's family are all Catholic. Makes for interesting dinner chat. Neither has shown any interest in joining either church and they are both young adults now. It's all part of life's rich tapestry and an understanding of other religions is never a bad thing in my very non-believing book.

The school remains responsible. They presumably factor that in if they are planning an activity from which parents have a right to withdraw their children.

I think the weird indoctrination does seep in. I am, and have always been, a confirmed atheist but I had a period of drug induced psychosis where I was obsessed by Jesus and goodness and sacrifice, and kept thinking people were the devil etc. So obviously those psychotic ideas had filtered in and kind of fucked up my mind or at least, came out during a period where my mind was fucked up.

they can if they want to most religions are

We specifically chose non religious schools and I was amazed at the number of people who weren't religious but didn't mind sending their child to a religious school. I do realise that not everyone has a non religious option nearby. But if you have options and you choose religious school you have to accept they will do religious stuff. Having said that I went to a school with daily chapel services and I am not religious at all as an adult.

Why?

Seems odd on a post criticising a school especially.

Posts can be deleted… people are still thinking it

I think the OP doesn't really know what is involved, just what they imagine or think is involved.
I was brought up in a family of Methodists and C of E, married a catholic who has a large Buddhist contingent in the extended family. We have all attended weddings and funerals in various temples, mosques, and spiritualist communities. I don't think any of it was damaging. DC are cheerfully atheist but have generous and broad minded values.

Well exactly- me Everton him Man U - guess who they support?! I raised a bunch of glory hunters!

@Dad0f1 I don't think you are coming back as you've got a bit of a pasting on here, but I'll offer my opinion as well.

DH and I are atheists who have sent all 4 of our combined children to church schools for similar reasons as you (although interested to understand what 'wouldn't cope' with a 2 form intake means? He'd only be in one class!). We never withdrew them from any of the church services, but made sure to have lots of conversation about what they understood from them, what they liked and didn't like, what was interesting etc. Primary also had a specific section in their school reports about how the children responded to RE and church, and all three (of mine - didn't see step son's) mentioned they had a well-rounded approach to religion and were empathetic and thoughtful.

Like you, we considered withdrawing them, but ultimately decided they should have the experiences for themselves and make up their own minds. They're all secondary or older now, and if they have any religious leanings it's not something that has come up in conversation.

Going forward, I think you should allow him to attend all the services, and also attend as many of the parent-invited ones as well. Our primary did all the important EOY shows and stuff in church with the Rev presiding over them, but other than singing hymns and a brief prayer was pretty secular in nature.

Keep lines of communication open about beliefs and stuff, but allow attendance IMO.

(Missing one isn't going to tar him or anything, although you might want to have a convo with the teacher just to say that for future services you've changed your mind, you were a bit rash. Trust me, even if you don't 100% believe that, it'll bode well for your school relationship!)

Most mainstream Church of England churches use wafers for communion. I've only been to a few of the more evangelical churches that used 'normal' bread.

As to transubstantiation, it may not be official mainstream C of E teaching but there are some on the more Anglo-Catholic end of the church who at least appear to personally believe in it. Certainly, their approach to the sacrament and their reverence of the sanctified bread is pretty indistinguishable from their Roman Catholic equivalents. You have to get pretty deep into the details of theology to find any difference.

I did think the Coronation did seem like some weird mass psychotic episode!

Not everyone has a non religious school nearby, and CofE is often the least bad option. I would have absolutely withdrawn for that.

Just look at the falling numbers in church services and the difficulty in getting people to train in the priesthood ( at least in catholic churches)
The don't appear to be indoctrinating people very well .

This is absolutely false.

Yes. They're deleted because they're deemed personal attacks.

Just because it doesn't work very well, doesn't mean that they're going to stop trying. They've got nothing else...

Poor kid is going to miss out on a trip with his friends. Who is he going to be upset with? You.

My dd has a friend that is a JW and they have never been allowed to take part in any religious activity or any other celebrations and she has really missed out on them.

As long as you explain to him that you don't believe, but that it's good to respect others beliefs then there's no reason why he can't go.

Yes, read and understood it all perfectly well, thank you.

You are being massively, stupendously unreasonable, as practically every other poster has said. And unfair to your child, who didn't get any choice in this. He just gets to see his friends going off for a fun, Christmassy event outside school without him, and will probably remember it for years.

And how exactly does this hard line stance of yours help him to learn about Christianity, which you claim to be ok with?

I genuinely don't understand why parents are so afraid of this and yet send their children to a CofE school.

What would happen if your child did become a Christian? It isn't harmful. There weren't any Christian extremist groups here last time I looked.

OP has

Refusing to allow your child to attend different types of worship/ go to different types of church / learn about different religions is not going to open his mind, as you imagine, it's going to close it.

That is interesting. It was always little pieces of bread in my day. Maybe it is to do with food hygiene regs.

Of course it isn't unreasonable to withdraw him, it's your right as a parent and I agree with the majority of what you've said.

Learning about religion is one thing but forcing it on them is another. I don't agree with state faith schools, despite that, my DC will likely go to one because the local school is CofE but I'm hoping we can find other options closer to the time.

I went to a church primary and we said a prayer at the end of assembly 3 days a week and were prompted to say “amen” and it hasn’t influenced my decision to choose my religious beliefs as an adult

I do think sending him to a CofE school and removing him from church services is strange - will he be allowed to attend Carol service at Christmas

They can say what they want, but remember your opinion is one of many too, and others may feel differently. Several billion do.