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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Was we unreasonable to withdraw our child from a school church service?

830 replies

Dad0f1 · 30/11/2023 12:01

Hello everyone new member here just looking for some advice/reassurance that I/we've made the right decision regarding withdrawing our child from a church service at school.

So our DS who is our first child started Reception this September at our local CofE primary school and although neither myself or my OH are church goers we felt that this was the best school for him as the other practical nearby choices were a RC school or a two form entry state school which our DS would not have coped with.

And to be fair our DS has settled in nicely making lots of new friends and seems to be enjoying it however, the other week we was informed that the children would be attending a 'School Communion Service' in the nearby church that the school is attached to and not having a clue what this was I enquired with the Head of RE what the service entailed, how involved DS would be in the service and what was expected of him during the service.

As I suspected the service was in their words 'a simplified child friendly version of the Holy Communion Service' which would include bread and wine for those who were confirmed (as apparantly the children are offered the option to be confirmed if they wish in Y6) but the Reverend overseeing ther service likes to get the children involved so will offer all the children confirmed or not a wafer if they want one.
Also 'prompts' would flash up on a big screen at various points during the service to let the children know when to say 'Amen' etc.

Now to the reason why I/we chose to withdraw my DS from this service. Although the Head of RE made a point to explain that worship is voluntary at the school and that the children are free to take part in worship as much or as little as they wish. I very much doubt that children aged 4 or 5 can grasp the concept of this especially as they are at an age where they want to please the adults around them.
This is also made difficult for them not to be involved if they wish when they have 'prompts' flashing up on a big screen to help/nudge them into reciting a paticular phrase and when everyone around them is then repeating it parrot fashion.

Whilst we do want our DS to learn about Christianity we also want him to make up his own mind about whether to accept it or reject it in later life.
So AI/WBU to withdraw him from school church services that are being conducted like this or should I let him experience them bearing in mind his young age?

OP posts:
Lookingatthesunset · 30/11/2023 13:20

HannibalHeyes · 30/11/2023 13:17

Prove me wrong...

Oh, you can't...

Please say you're 12...

CurlewKate · 30/11/2023 13:21

@SevenButterflies "C of E doesn't have wafers" Yes they do!

x2boys · 30/11/2023 13:21

HannibalHeyes · 30/11/2023 13:16

Not even remotely unreasonable.

Learning about religion is one thing, but the reason they want all children, particularly when they are that young and impressionable, to attend a service like this is pure indoctrination.

They want to give them a happy, included feeling, before they actually understand the full meaning. It's been going on for centuries, and is the only reason why the church is still going.

For all those say "you should have chosen a secular school" - are you really so stupid as to realise that there is no such thing in England?

Most are not indoctrinated though,as I said despite my very catholic childhood and education I am very lapsed
My son Also went to Catholic schools he left school n the summer ,he's atheist .

weemouse · 30/11/2023 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ilovesooty · 30/11/2023 13:21

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It's about time that posters realised that attacks on the grammar of other posters aren't acceptable.

Psychoticbreak · 30/11/2023 13:21

If it helps OP I am Irish in Ireland and went to catholic schools and I am now a proud atheist with kids in non denominational schools.

FreshWinterMorning · 30/11/2023 13:22

oakleaffy · 30/11/2023 13:20

Were you unreasonable?
Yes, as it's a Church school.

Why on earth send your child to a Church school if you don't hold that faith?
Just use a non~ religious school.

I am so sick to death of people using the Church/religion when it suits.

Sending your child to a Church of England school, and then pulling them away from 'religious things' at the school?! REALLY @Dad0f1 ? Hmm I hope they make you take your child out of their school.

outragedmarshmallow · 30/11/2023 13:22

HannibalHeyes · 30/11/2023 13:16

Not even remotely unreasonable.

Learning about religion is one thing, but the reason they want all children, particularly when they are that young and impressionable, to attend a service like this is pure indoctrination.

They want to give them a happy, included feeling, before they actually understand the full meaning. It's been going on for centuries, and is the only reason why the church is still going.

For all those say "you should have chosen a secular school" - are you really so stupid as to realise that there is no such thing in England?

Yep agree it's a weird brainwashing. Essentially it's just another cult obviously

Lookingatthesunset · 30/11/2023 13:22

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That's makes my teeth itch..!

Nevermind31 · 30/11/2023 13:22

If this was a Muslim/ Jewish/ Hindu whatever person asking, would the answers be the same? Would people be happy if their child attend prayer and communion equivalent of other religions?
this is entirely different from learning g about a religion and I think it is ok to pull your child out if you feel strongly about it.
i am in a very diverse area, and I don’t think this sort if thing would fly here (also a lot of CoE schools around, despite the population being so diverse).

HannibalHeyes · 30/11/2023 13:23

Oh for goodness sake! The "well I/my whatever didn't get indoctrinated so that's OK" argument is pathetic!

Why on earth do you think they do this stuff?

Drfosters · 30/11/2023 13:23

I think he’ll miss out to be honest. I went to a church school. Not religious at all as an adult. My kids go to a secular school and I actually think they have missed out a bit. They never learnt the hymns and experienced the pomp and ceremony. My friends and I from school still reminisce about those days. I even have my hymn book on my shelf.

outragedmarshmallow · 30/11/2023 13:23

FreshWinterMorning · 30/11/2023 13:22

I am so sick to death of people using the Church/religion when it suits.

Sending your child to a Church of England school, and then pulling them away from 'religious things' at the school?! REALLY @Dad0f1 ? Hmm I hope they make you take your child out of their school.

but honestly what percentage of the country is christian compared to the number of christian schools there are. I don't think there is a match. All the churches are empty for a reason..

Lookingatthesunset · 30/11/2023 13:23

Nevermind31 · 30/11/2023 13:22

If this was a Muslim/ Jewish/ Hindu whatever person asking, would the answers be the same? Would people be happy if their child attend prayer and communion equivalent of other religions?
this is entirely different from learning g about a religion and I think it is ok to pull your child out if you feel strongly about it.
i am in a very diverse area, and I don’t think this sort if thing would fly here (also a lot of CoE schools around, despite the population being so diverse).

If the school specifically catered to that religion, then why not?

outragedmarshmallow · 30/11/2023 13:24

does anyone know why there are so many christian schools (given not many christians these days) - is it just that they always were?

Lookingatthesunset · 30/11/2023 13:24

HannibalHeyes · 30/11/2023 13:23

Oh for goodness sake! The "well I/my whatever didn't get indoctrinated so that's OK" argument is pathetic!

Why on earth do you think they do this stuff?

Erm, maybe because it's a CoE school? Clue in the title kind of thing?

They're doing a pretty poor job of indoctrinating the masses aren't they now...?

x2boys · 30/11/2023 13:25

LaurieStrode · 30/11/2023 13:19

Exactly. It's the brainwashing.

Few people not exposed to religion in childhood will pick it up in adulthood. The church promoters know that.

And a lot of us that were very exposed as children are not religious AA adults
I very much doubt that many of the adults I went to my convent primary school and Catholic secondary school,with are still regular church attenders

HannibalHeyes · 30/11/2023 13:25

There are no secular schools in England.

For schools without a formal faith designation, the majority of the acts of worship should be "of a broadly Christian character". In practical terms, this has been interpreted to mean that 51% of school days each school term must have an act of worship of a broadly Christian character.

oakleaffy · 30/11/2023 13:25

If brainwashing was so easy, don’t you think all children would go to bed, keep their bedrooms clean and brush their teeth properly?

Exactly this.

Heck, DS went to a Catholic school, the school knew we weren't Catholics, but no way would I ever have excluded DS from services.

They were good enough to have allowed DS there- I wouldn't have insulted them by wanting to exclude DS.

He sat through umpteen Services and although he wears a Crucifix as an adult he isn't 'Brainwashed'.

ghostyslovesheets · 30/11/2023 13:25

SevenButterflies · 30/11/2023 13:18

C of E doesn't have wafers and doesn't teach transubstantiation. That is Roman Catholicism.

It does have wafers! And wine but not transubstantiatio

Humbugg · 30/11/2023 13:25

YABU. You should have sent him to a different school

Allfur · 30/11/2023 13:25

If its brain washing it doesnt work very well, it's just a bit of fun and nonsense for the kids - no more brain washing than a dad taking his kids to watch the team he supports, in fact that's more brain washing

WaltzingWaters · 30/11/2023 13:26

I didn’t even go to a religious school but we still went to church services at xmas and Easter. I was never religious as a child, nor am I now (at all), but I did enjoy a little change to the daily school routine, and a trip somewhere else with my school friends. I think I’d have been upset to miss that.
Also, clearly the odd Christingle service didn’t make me super religious.

Itsnotallalark · 30/11/2023 13:26

If a child is withdrawn from a religious activity at school, are they taken out of school by the parent or is the school still responsible for their care?

ActDottie · 30/11/2023 13:26

YABU I’m very unreligious and describe myself as an atheist but I’d still let my child go.

Theyll learn a lot too and they’re probably sad that they’re going to be left out.

You talk about your child making their own decision as to whether to join in with the worship but you’ve literally made that decision for him and decided he won’t.