Friend demanded my honest opinion re her child's diet.

[Eastie77Returns]

My friend's child is just under a year old. She mentioned to me that he eats several pre-prepared pouches (Ella's Kitchen, pureed fruits) a day. On an average day she might give him 3-4. She asked me if I thought that was excessive as her MIL has been highly critical and also said she should cook everything from scratch for a child of that age.

Inwardly I partially agreed with her MIL. I don't think everything needs to be cooked from scratch (who has the time?!) but 4 pouches seems a lot. However I remember the stress of bringing up young DC and didn't want to pile on so I just replied that as long as her DC is happy, fed and gets a variety of food it is fine. Friend replied "you didn't really answer the question...do you think that's too many pouches" and insisted I give her an honest answer. In the end I said yes, it seems quite high if it's that amount every day. She was then clearly upset and things have been really strained between us since.

I mean, I don't get it. In the grand scheme of things it's really not that important - the pouches are not poison - but if you want honest feedback on what you are feeding your child then surely just accept the opinon when it's given? If you don't like what you hear then ok, just move on.

Yes, it's a shame that people are not educated on this, someone mentioned that pouches have more vegetables than they would add themselves.
I'm guessing they never looked at the actual content.
The beans and jacket potato Ellas pouch has 4 vegetables..I can imagine mum thinking great that's four of their 5 a day.

actually it's
15 grams of carrot
8 grams of onion
1 gram of parsnip.

That's not even a teaspoon of veg.

@grass67 the marketing is so clever and misleading.

food issues are so much more complex than ‘got used to mushy food so now doesn’t like different textures’

My son lived on Ella’s kitchen pouches, hipp organic jars and toddler meals in a tray… lots of mushy stuff. He also had bottles of milk until he was nearly 4.

At 9 what won’t he eat? Processed stuff out of the freezer or food with sauce added (ketchup/gravy/mayo etc- he will eat pasta with sauce or beef stew type stuff).

He has no issue with spices/chewy food/ veggies/fruit etc

I’m really not sure about Ella’s Kitchen but most baby pouches are cooked in a way that preserves shelf life, unfortunately this reduces the nutrients in the meals and kills off some vitamins too

this really isn’t true. Read the research. It’s just cooked in a way that kills bacteria and then packaged in air tight packaging. You could do this at home with the right equipment.

But you haven’t provided any actual evidence based information as to why you think it’s not healthy? You are just promoting misinformation - comparing baby pouches to adult ready meals etc. Adult ready meals are generally unhealthy because they contain high salt and other products added such as fat to preserve shelf life. This isn’t the case for kids pouches. You seem to believe that because they have a long shelf life this means they are like adult ready meals, but that’s not the case. Baby pouches have a long shelf life because they are cooked in a way that kills off bacteria and then placed in air tight packaging.

Actually the evidence does not support that pressure cooking kills more nutrients than other types of cooking. This is myth.
the high sugar content of baby pouches I do agree with, and did ask op at the beginning if this was her issue , but it seems it’s much broader than that.

An adult's ready meals aren't going to be just fruit, vegetables and meat with identifiable ingredients (ie, flour and egg white) in the carbs, though - they're going to contain all the other things that make them less nutritious, bulk out the products and increase the profit margins for the manufacturers. Those pouches are expensive because there isn't the filler in them (and parents pay more for something that doesn't contain them).

@Tandora Actually evidence is pretty clear that pressure cooking/cooking to a high temperature does reduce nutrition content.

I'd suggest you read one or any of the thousands of articles on the subject!! There's plenty from university studies.

It doesn't just reduce the nutrients it make vitamins unavailable.

YANBU IMO

Of course that's too many pouches and she knows it which is why she's so upset that you said so

All the defensive comments here god, stop being so lazy and feed your kids properly

I hope her mother in law is spouting the same stuff to her own son, there are two parents after all

@NeverDropYourMooncup nothing to do with filler, the foods are cooked to high temperatures to kill off botulism, this reduces the nutrition and makes the vitamins difficult to access.

if a product has say spag Bol. that meat will be cooked once, then mixed with veg, sauce then cooked at a high temperature to kill off botulism, then will be heated by mum.
every time you heat that meat it looses nutrition, same for veggies. Food that is shelf stable for months, it's because it's been heated to crazy pressure temperatures. The result is cardboard food. have a look at the research, hundreds of articles from trusted sources around the globe.

@NeverDropYourMooncup you can't seriously think these pouches are the same as something you could make fresh at home? Of course they aren't. The packaging is beautiful and the marketing is aggressive but that doesn't make it as nutritious or any less ultra processed

Why would it be too many pouches? If baby’s eating, and is hungry, then feed him. They are 100% organic, varied, balanced, high quality meals, about 80 - 100 calories each. So that’s about 400 calories, plus his milk. Depending on his age, this is very probably not excessive at all.

I don’t see why people are so anti-pouch. My home cooking does not include as much variety of ingredients, and isn’t organic. I costed it up once, and to buy all of the ingredients listed on the back on the pouch, would cost 10x what I pay for a pouch.

@SiennaMillar
ok, I understand your thinking.
name me one pouch you fed your child?
one you felt good feeding your baby?

Again with the lazy comments 🤦‍♀️

You can't seriously think that they are exactly the same as an 85p lasagne sold to adults? Of course they aren't. The packaging is shit and the marketing is non existent because they'd rather people bought the £4.50 one, but that doesn't make it exactly the same as a baby food.

😂ehh? I have read the research, which clearly tells you nutrients and vitamins are lost in these pouches due to the cooking process.

The heat doesn’t say ‘ahh that’s bad bacteria let’s kill it, but do mind the vitamin C over there we need that in tact for little Theodore!’ 🙄

This is the ingredients for Ella kitchen spag bol.
37% TOMATOES
10% CARROT
BROCOLLI 6%
ONION 5%
MUSHROOM 4%
BEEF 11%
CHEESE 2%

NOW BEARING IN MIND this is a 130g packet
that's not even a spoonful of carrot, broccoli, onion, mushroom or cheese.

How can anyone think they can't make it for a fraction of the cost??
10% carrot is 13gr of carrot
5% onion is 7gr....

You need industrial scales to weigh out such small amounts.

Organic Tomatoes 37%, Organic Cooked Pasta 18% (Water, Organic Pasta (Organic Durum Wheat, Organic Dried Egg Whites)), Organic Beef 11%, Organic Carrots 10%, Organic Vegetable Stock 7% (Water and Organic Vegetables: Onions, Carrots, Parships, Leeks, Swedes), Organic Broccoli 6%, Organic Onions 5%, Organic Mushrooms 4%, Organic Cheddar Cheese (Milk) 2%, Organic Mixed Herbs <1% (Thyme, Parsley, Sag

Because you can’t buy 14g of beef. You have to be able to afford the actual amount of ingredients you can buy, then transport, cook and store the food. And have the equipment and know how to do it.

There’s no point creating a false narrative about it.

It's not a false narrative 🙄 Spending £1.70 on one baby meal ??

Asda prices today
carrots 35p 500gr
onions 99p 1Kg
broccoli 79 p 360g
Tomatoes £1.00 300gr
beef £3.75 500gr
pasta 75p 500g

so a total of circa £7 would make how many pouches? Add in another protein source and this is weeks of meals.

Yep, if you ignore all the other factors and pretend that the price of veg is the only issue at play.

I have explained several times why I don’t think the pouches are particularly healthy. You refuse to accept my opinions are legitimate (which is fine) but it’s a bit annoying that you keep asking me to explain why when it’s all been explained several times on this thread.

Firstly U.K. dentists have repeatedly warned that pouches including Ella’s Kitchen and Annabelle Karmel contain dangerously high levels of sugar. Not just a bit too much but amounts that should not be consumed by toddlers on a regular basis. They basically contain more sugar in volume than a can of Coke. You can do a quick Google and find the official reports.

So if a one year old child is consuming 3-4 servings of this stuff every single day then obviously it’s a problem.

Secondly the pouches are processed. It’s been explained to you multiple times by different posters and is backed up by basic science but you refuse to believe it so I don’t know what else to tell you. The manufacturers of baby food actually acknowledge that processing is required to keep their products shelf stable. It’s literally a known fact.

And yet you argue that this sugar laden, processed stuff is the same as cooking from scratch and “putting the food in an air tight bag” to preserve it.

I don’t know what else to say.

I have a child with severe food allergies. For
my next baby the advice was two introduce allergens quickly, as close to 6 months as possible and wait a few days after each allergen to ensure we were ok. She has no allergies and was shoving full spaghetti bolognaise in her face at 7 months. Maybe gently suggest she does some reading on allergies. There’s lots of very good evidence that suggests the later you leave if, the bigger the risk.

no matter how busy you are you must have time to give solid dinners? She doesn’t eat pouches so at that age chop up what you eat. You’re not unreasonable and unfortunately people will not take advice about food which is why we are in the crisis we are with health. No child under 1 is fussy. My 4 year old is fussy and she gets a homemade meal put in front of her every night and if she doesn’t eat it fine. last night she happily ate her curry. We have such a bad attitude to food here.

@MrsSunshine2b · 29/11/2023 12:06

I'd let the friendship go. It's one thing to choose to give your baby a horrible diet, it's another to try to railroad people into validating your poor choices.

quite brutal. End the friendship because she asked a question and hated the answer.

she’s obviously feeling vulnerable and judged by the MiL

we have no idea what’s going on in her life does she maybe have depression and need some help. Maybe she’s never cooked from scratch.

YNBU she clear has something deeper going on and needs som

Definitely not being unreasonable. She asked your opinion and then didn’t like it. At that age kids should be eating solid proper food. One or two pouches a week for convenience but not every meal.

My DS1 was a nightmare to feed from birth (he has ASD). I did all the BLW stuff which didn't work, I did some Annabel Karmel recipes which he wasn't a fan of. He loved those Ella's pouches. He was on 2-3 a day so he was getting something that wasn't milk. I knew it was wrong, but he wouldn't eat anything else. We eventually got him onto chunkier Heinz meals which he ate until 3.5 years.

DS2 basically just had whatever we had from about 5.5 months. His brother shoved a Mr Whippy into his face and he hasn't looked back.

Your friend shouldn't have pushed if she didn't like the answer.