... to expect my 5 year old to do something she doesn't wany to?

[letloz]

I was in alone with the 5 (nearly 6) year old today. Quite fancied going to a second hand clothing sale in the centre of town- DD wasn't keen. I can understand she wouldn't get much out of it, but I explained we'd only be there half an hour, gave examples of all the MANY things we are doing this weekend for her benefit (going to legoland tomorrow, made pancakes and played video games with her this morning) and how it would be nice for her to do something for someone else, even offered a cafe trip. Still refused to go. I found myself turning off all the screens and refusing to play with her, ad if she wouldn't do something nice to me, why should I do more nice things for her? It felt like a bit of an adult sulk, but really wasn't/am not sure how else to approach the situation. If it had been something non negotiable, like a medical appt, obviously I would have put my foot down more, but I'm more disappointed that she was unwilling to put someone else's wishes before her own for a change. Or AIBU to expect this of a 5 year old?

Your reaction to punish her for making the "Wrong choice" would have been confusing and likely have made her feel insecure. As at 5 she wouldn't have made the connection between saying no and your reaction. Clear messages and if needs be consequences need to be communicated to children at this age.

Punishing her with not going to legoland would be unfair as in this scenario she has not done anything wrong, she made a choice offered to her. Again it would be confusing and upsetting for this to be withdrawn.

Even as teens I don’t think our children react to “you do something nice for mummy because mummy does so much for you”. That thinking doesn’t work. It doesn’t work much for adults either - it’s just an unwritten code.

When my DD was younger the conversations were more like “We are going shopping today, what do you want to bring? scooter or walk// book or toy// tuna or egg”

I was told that children want to feel in control but you give them choices of things that they can control - whilst still being the parent and being in control (hope that makes sense!)

Personally at that age I would spend many weekends going out - whether it was a fun trip to a museum or theme park or doing groceries or a family event. I wouldn’t let my DD take over or change our plans unless the place I was going was not child friendly or one of us were ill or exhausted etc.

5 year olds do not reason with adults. At the end of the day you can talk about the one thing she loved from going out with you today (e.g. my DD once didn’t want to go to the panto. I took her anyway. At the end I asked her to share her favourite part and her face lit up as she explained her fav scene).

However prior and whilst we are still getting out the only negotiation would be given them a choice of what they want to bring with them. OR if there is a park nearby you can say “we will ply in the park for 30 mins”.

The reason she said no is because that is how you've brought her up - giving her a choice so she will only do the things she wants - at school this will be a nightmare

You are obviously NOT a bad parent at all (great activities / giving your DD a voice) but you are in the process of making a rod for your own back!

Not too late to change it up though! Good Luck!

You tell a 5 year old, you certainly don’t ask her opinion! What would happen if she didn’t want to go to school? Would she just be allowed to stay at home?

I still call B and Q etc boring - and when I went with my mother recently I may have had a bit of a strop in the nails aisle (boring boring boring)
I am 51

She isn't asked a question. She doesn't get to say no.

It's shoes on we are going out.

I can’t believe you negotiated! My kids of a similar age get told, we’re going to xyz in 10 minutes. If they get into a strop (rare) I say they can stay at home on their own and start putting my shoes on- they usually get ready pretty quickly after that. Once you start a negotiation with a 5yr old it’s a slippery slope.

'We are going in to town now' was all you needed to say here. No negotiation necessary. I can't believe you didn't go on your 5 year olds say so!

You're the issue here OP. Why are you negotiating with a five year old and why has it got to the point where your child is 'refusing' to go out. Just tell her 'we're going out' and get her ready.

I voted YABU purely on the basis of it being absolutely batshit to give a 5 year old the choice of whether to go out or not.

Expecting a 5 year old to put other people's needs first, especially when that need is a bit of retail therapy, is even more bonkers.

Apologies if that sounds harsh but a grip really does need getting, here.

And then had a little mardy!! 😂

Sorry, OP but this has not been your finest hour!

One of the best parenting tips I got was from here re choices. Only give children the choice if you are happy with either outcome, ie do you want to wear the red top or blue one.
Unfortunately by asking her and not telling her meant the ball was in her court.
You said she had refused to do things before, this is probably because she's been asked not told.

You have been given good advice on this thread, some maybe more blunt than what you were expecting but everyone is saying the same thing

I think the issue is that you've let her get to 5 knowing she's responsible for making these decisions. Apart from anything else, that's very unfair to a small child as they don't have the capacity to think rationally about all these situations and choices that we as adults do.

I disagree with the people saying 'punish her', 'take away toys', etc. It's not her fault she's always been given permission to make these decisions. You're her parent, they should be your responsibility.

Just to clear up some misunderstandings (after thinking it through a bit myself). If its something we have to do (a food shop for example), there is no argument, we just go. The issue here was I think I was feeling guilty about wanting to take her to something fun for me, which I knew she wouldn't particularly enjoy. So learning here- either tell her thats what we're doing, no arguments, or give her a genuine choice where I don't get cross where she doesn't give the answer I had hoped for. I think part of my question was, AIBU to think a 5 year old is mayure enough to consider someone elses wishes- i thought she could do that, as shes generally pretty considerate and mature, but the consensus is that thats too much to expect at that age (and moat ages of children by the sound of it!) Thanks to everyone who helped me come to that conclusion without getting insulting.

@letloz . I think you need to start viewing the occasional thing you want to do for you as 'non-negotiable' too. Although clearly you shouldn't say this to her, it's not unreasonable in a world where you spend most of your time doing things for her to sometimes do things for you. But like you said, don't present it as a choice.

Well done OP - a gracious response!

Op I think it was a bit of a pile on. I posted wanting to be really honest with you, but what I forgot to say was that nobody is a perfect parent and we all do stuff in a way we wish we hadn't afterwards. I don't think you're a terrible parent or person I just think you're human.

The answer to the 'what if she says no' question is just to truly believe that you're in the right and it's happening. But I think that means saving the three line whip for stuff you really want to do. Yes, the are parents who will take their kids absolutely everywhere because they (the parent) want to go. Those are the ones who have a very very firm belief that their wants are paramount. They tend to come a bit unstuck during adolescence in my experience. 😉

@letloz I think 5 year olds are capable of thinking of other people actually. My DS was definitely able to, for example, understand if I was ill that I couldn't do as much for him. DS4 will share his sweets with me etc.

But I think this particular example is too complex for a 5 year old. I don't think she is able to understand that Legoland isn't equally fun for you as for her because you will doubtless pretend to enjoy it. My 7 year old has only recently started to realise that I don't actually like dinosaurs and even then I think he hasn't fully accepted that in his heart.

I'm perplexed as to why your 5 year old is in charge.

You gave her on option, and she understandably didn't want to do it, because it was not fun for her. You then tried to guilt her by pointing out all the things you were doing for her, and when she still didn't think it would be fun, you sulked......agree with others- she's a kid. If there is something you want to do, you tell her you're going,you don't ask.

Hi OP. I think the responses were a bit harsh but the points were valid.

You might want to try reading how to talk so children will listen (and listen so children will talk.)
There's an interesting part about overwhelming kids with words and validations when they just need basic instructions, even down to one word.

The other thing I'd add is don't assume what your child will enjoy or not. My eldest would be mad for that and hers involved in lots of things.
Kids love the most random of activities and games can be made anywhere - especially that age.

It's also really important to get them used to being bored. It's actually.very healthy.

Well done for asking for advice good luck.

Do you drive? You give her X long to get dressed then put her in the car. Or put her in the front garden.
Honestly mine can be little poo heads sometimes but at 5, no way would they have disobeyed a series of direct "commands" even if I had to help get them dressed.

How is her behave and your discipline generally?

Then yes, yabu. 5 is too young to expect them to sacrifice their own happiness for yours.

There's nothing wrong with being clear that you're going to go out to do something you want to do.
It doesn't have to be essential.
You want to teach a child that others matter too and to sometimes prioritise what someone else wants to do? You don't achieve that by doing fun things for them and limiting your stuff to essentials and being apologetic or feeling guilty if you want to do something for yourself once in a while!

It's good for children to grow up knowing that in a family, everyone gets a turn to do stuff they like.

My mum was a bloody martyr when me and my sister were kids and not the silent type either. The annoying 'everything is for the children look at how much I don't have cos children come first I couldn't possibly do something / have something / buy something for me cos Kids' type.

It's not a good way to be.

"The issue here was I think I was feeling guilty about wanting to take her to something fun for me, which I knew she wouldn't particularly enjoy."

Interesting that you feel guilty about doing something fun for yourself. You are allowed, you know!

It can sometimes feel, when our children are young, that we must be continuously alert to their need, sacrificing our preferences in order to centre them, to help our children become functioning adults. And that can make it difficult for us to switch gears and do something just for us. But I would argue that doing something just for ourself, and the children witnessing that, actually is helping our children become functioning adults. If they are continuously the centre of their parents' Universe, there's a risk that their either become self-centred (because they've never experienced an environment where they weren't centred), or, they grow up thinking they have to sacrifice themselves for their children. Neither is a healthy outcome.

So, next time you fancy doing something for you, and your DD has to tag along; consider that AS WELL AS it being for you, it is also a learning opportunity for DD. That you are modelling healthy adult behaviour to her and presenting a more representative Universe where everyone's needs and wants are to be considered and not just hers.