... to expect my 5 year old to do something she doesn't wany to?

[letloz]

I was in alone with the 5 (nearly 6) year old today. Quite fancied going to a second hand clothing sale in the centre of town- DD wasn't keen. I can understand she wouldn't get much out of it, but I explained we'd only be there half an hour, gave examples of all the MANY things we are doing this weekend for her benefit (going to legoland tomorrow, made pancakes and played video games with her this morning) and how it would be nice for her to do something for someone else, even offered a cafe trip. Still refused to go. I found myself turning off all the screens and refusing to play with her, ad if she wouldn't do something nice to me, why should I do more nice things for her? It felt like a bit of an adult sulk, but really wasn't/am not sure how else to approach the situation. If it had been something non negotiable, like a medical appt, obviously I would have put my foot down more, but I'm more disappointed that she was unwilling to put someone else's wishes before her own for a change. Or AIBU to expect this of a 5 year old?

You put her shoes and coat on and take her anyway, just as you would if she said "no" to going to school.

She's five. She doesn't get a say.

Why is it a choice for her? Why does she even need to know where you're going.in particular?

If she says "No!" Then you tell her "this isn't open for debate. Shoes on. We're going out."
If she keeps refusing, give her choices like "right, are you wearing your wellies or your shoes?"
And then ,if necessary do the whole "let's race to out our shoes on. I bet you can't beat me!" And "I wonder who is faster at getting to the car?"

You have said that when it’s a medical appointment you insist and put your foot down more, so do that for this.

You can’t expect her to be thrilled, but at that age, just say that’s what you’re doing and then later on we’ll watch a film, go to the park or something.

But, by saying"Ok but..." you're agreeing with her that you won't be going out? you're reinforcing the message that the she decides if you're going out or not and that she has the power to control where you are....

Do parents negotiate with their kids these days? It's wrong to give choices and then confuse the situation with punishment. I also think it's wrong to tell her she is "doing something nice for somebody else". Life doesn't work like that and she will learn the hard way. She should be doing what she is told.

Why is a 5yr old dictating how you spend your day? ‘We’re going out’ end of conversation.

I would tell her what we were doing. If she struggles with something like shopping I would start small and do a short visit and possibly throw in a treat such as a café visit. And build up.

I wouldn't say well if you won't do this for me I won't do this for you. You are literally role modeling the behaviour you don't want

“Oh that’s a shame you don’t want to. Come on, we’re going.”

You are being awfully cruel when you said “right well if you won’t do what I want you can’t do what you want”. You can’t talk to a child like that.

As a side point- I came on here looking for advice cos I knew I hadn't handled the situation well. I wasn't looking for a diatribe of abuse of how I was the world's worst mother, and my daughter is f*cked. I am taking on board the message behind these posts and appreciate the people who have done so in a neutral way, but the tone of the majority of these posts have just made me feel like an utterly failure. Why is it ok to be so much more cruel anonymously on here than you would be to someone in real life? Ironic considering one of the main thing people are stating is to be kind.

No need for all that, just tell her you're going.

This. You dont negotiate.

"Screen off, shoes on, we're going into town".

What a 5 year old wants isn't relevant. You are the adult. You make the choices.

Fwiw @letloz i don’t think anyone has tried to be cruel to you, I think they’re trying to illustrate how a 5 year old is likely to perceive it. Absolutely I can see why you’d find that hurtful or a bit too close to the bone but I really don’t think it’s been offered up with the intention of upsetting or shaming you. It can be helpful to understand it all a bit more at times

I think there’s a book recommended here, how to speak so kids will listen. Haven’t read it myself (and my dd is 50/50 on whether she listens to me ) but it might be worth investigating. The upshot is that we have learned a lot of social rules and things like being nice and/or fair. Dc aren’t automatically being disobedient or mean because they haven’t learnt the same rules we have. Sometimes parenting in a way you don’t find instinctually comfortable isn’t helpful overall and leads to situations being managed in a way you yourself aren’t completely happy about and doesn’t lead to future behaviour being any different.

OK, I get the general gist here is 'tell her she's going', but what when she then flat out says no? (Which she has done in the past)

I’d tell her I wasn’t asking her, she needs to get her shoes and coat on and be ready to go. She’s going to say “no” to a lot of things, you need to hold your authority as her parent because she’s not old enough to chose every aspect of her life, and shouldn’t be controlling aspects of yours.

"This is not a democracy. I'm in charge. Shift, now, otherwise sharks will start biting your bottom."

Or something of that sort. I say this to my 6yo and they find it funny, and then they move.

Agree not negotiating.

In this situation tomorrow morning I'd not be getting up and getting ready for legoland and just announcing "I just don't fancy going"

Yes she'll be disappointed. But she'll learn bloody darn quick that compromise and making sacrifices works both ways.

There wouldn't have been ANY discussion here, it would be absolutely happening.

There is no choice in this situation.

*In this situation tomorrow morning I'd not be getting up and getting ready for legoland and just announcing "I just don't fancy going"

Yes she'll be disappointed. But she'll learn bloody darn quick that compromise and making sacrifices works both ways.*

Please don’t do this, she’s too young to have the psychological processes to make that link, it’s unfair to try and teach her a lesson she’s too young to learn. Instead stop asking her to do things that aren’t negotiable - including things you want/need to do that are inconvenient for her.

A parenting trick that I found affective when mine were very small was to give them two choices that suited me in things like this, or food.

Coat and shoes, or jacket and boots?
Eggs and toast or beans and waffles?

Shop and super market or shop and a hot chocolate?

It worked well with 3 year olds.

Yes I agree with PP. 'do you want to make pancakes before or after going to X?'

It’s unrealistic to expect a 5 year old to go to a 2nd hand clothing sale. I don’t expect my DH would want to go either. For children and adults, compromises are needed. I would persuade a child or adult to go based on the fact we would probably also do something they wanted to do whilst we were out as well. “Do what I want to do and come with me” isn’t a particular effective approach for children or adults of any age.

What do mean “if she says no!” You haven’t asked her a question, that’s the whole point.

If you say “right, we’re off to the shops in five minutes “ and she says “I don’t want to go” you just say “never mind, we will make it fun and do xyz when we get back” or any other jolly shizz you can make up.

As PP have said, what would/do you do if she says she doesn’t want to go to school?

It will be harder for you to enforce these boundaries as she’s got used to being in charge, but don’t beat yourself up. We’ve all fucked up parenting in one way or another, I know I have! Just keep at it and she will adapt.

People aren't being cruel. They are telling you what they think because you asked.

What you have done is allowed your child to make a decision, then punished and scolded the child for making the "wrong decision ".
I'd say that's closer to cruel than anything else on this thread..

You can't expect much in the way of empathy and fairness from a five-year-old, which is why you don't give them a veto.

Until she’s old enough to stay on her own she doesn’t get a choice (unless there’s someone else able to look after her). Just tell her you are going. It’s not like she’s not done/ doing anything she enjoys all weekend.