... to expect my 5 year old to do something she doesn't wany to?

[letloz]

I was in alone with the 5 (nearly 6) year old today. Quite fancied going to a second hand clothing sale in the centre of town- DD wasn't keen. I can understand she wouldn't get much out of it, but I explained we'd only be there half an hour, gave examples of all the MANY things we are doing this weekend for her benefit (going to legoland tomorrow, made pancakes and played video games with her this morning) and how it would be nice for her to do something for someone else, even offered a cafe trip. Still refused to go. I found myself turning off all the screens and refusing to play with her, ad if she wouldn't do something nice to me, why should I do more nice things for her? It felt like a bit of an adult sulk, but really wasn't/am not sure how else to approach the situation. If it had been something non negotiable, like a medical appt, obviously I would have put my foot down more, but I'm more disappointed that she was unwilling to put someone else's wishes before her own for a change. Or AIBU to expect this of a 5 year old?

If you have let her rule the roost until now she is going to say no because she thinks she always has a choice.

Tell her she is going, shoes on now, if she says no then she gets a firm warning then consequences. No begging, pleading, negotiation and follow through every. single. time.

She needs to learn the world doesn't revolve around her. That means she doesn't only go where she wants, doesn't always get her favourite food, etc. It will initially be hard changing, but will be worth it for both of you. Kids feel more secure when they have firm boundaries from their parents.

Make sure she knows the difference between boundaries with her parents/trusted adults and adults she doesn't know well.

That’s great but it’s not the same scenario for a single parent or parent that finds themselves without any on tap childcare for whatever reason. I wouldn’t book a sitter for a shopping trip and wouldn’t expect anyone else to either. It doesn’t harm a child to go even if they are a bit bored.

You take her. It won't be pleasant and there may be some yelling, but if you let her call the shots at 5, she will be unmanageable at 10 or 15.

You just say "sorry you don't want to come/think it's boring/would rather stay at home, but we're going". It's a non negotiable like brushing your teeth, wearing a seat belt and taking your medicine.

If I'd have stayed in every time my children didn't want to go out we'd have either starved to death or the older ones would still be waiting at the school gates for me to collect them.

Oh, that brings back memories - my dad used to do something similar. IIRC it was "This is not a democracy, this is a dictatorship and I am the dictator!" And yes, it made us laugh, my dad was a big softie.

I agree with everyone else, you do not negotiate with a five year old. You are the adult, you are in charge. It sounds as if you have maybe made a rod for your own back.

You now need to wean her off having an effective veto. I would go with @billy1966's way of giving her the illusion of choice -

"Coat and shoes, or jacket and boots?
Eggs and toast or beans and waffles?"

But never giving her the choice of going or not going. She'll kick up the first few times, but - persevere. Be firm, be consistent - DO NOT BUDGE A MILLIMETRE! She has to learn that kicking off does not get her anything. Consistency is your friend.

Completely agree. My 6yo spends lots of time in places they'd rather not be. Most recently in hospital for 3 hours as we waited for their baby sibling to be checked over. You make it as fun as you can, you take something to do and offer a hot chocolate and a playground trip afterwards, but doing boring stuff is part of family life.

Oh, that brings back memories - my dad used to do something similar. IIRC it was "This is not a democracy, this is a dictatorship and I am the dictator!" And yes, it made us laugh, my dad was a big softie

I had an uncle who would say ‘I do not negotiate with terrorists’

I get that it's frustrating to ask for advice and then have people just tell you you're doing it wrong.

Some suggestions that work for me with mine below - but I really do recommend that you think about your existing strategies and what already works when you need to get her out for things like school/appointments as you will already have some approaches that already work.

• Don't ask questions or negotiate unless you really don't mind what she chooses - it is unfair to offer a choice and then guilt trip her if she chooses the wrong one. Just announce that this is the plan for the day.
• Routine helps, we have a rhythm to the weekend, some bits are kid focused and some are adult focused
• Timeouts work on the older one
• Joking him out of it works better on the younger one

I recommend the book how to talk so little kids will listen

Where’s the abuse?

Where is the cruelty?

and who stating ‘to be kind’ as a main thing? People are telling you to understand you daughter doesn’t have and can’t be excepted to be on the same level as you emotionally.

Are you really comparing people (adults) critiquing your (another adult) parenting style, which you asked them to do, in a way you don’t like to ignoring a 5 because she won’t simply just enjoy things that you do?

I've 3 kids and they've never said 'no' when ive said were going somewhere. Maybe a moan or a groan but they know they have to go if I say were going.

I think that children can pick up on our confidence. If deep down we feel like we are the boss, everything about us communicates that and the child can't spent any chinks in our armour.

It sounds like you felt you lost some kind of control over the situation and you tried to regain it with the emotional blackmail. Is this something you faced as a child? Sometimes these habits can be hard not to repeat.

I think you would really enjoy researching Janet Lansbury. She is great at showing how to be a strong confident parent without using emotional manipulation. Her philosophy is very refreshing (and children should do things that they aren't interested in, in small doses-its good for them to know that other people are important too).

Agreed. Mine knew very well that when I said we needed to go out, we went. But I didn’t make them go round shops any longer than necessary. Ten minutes at the most in each shop, 3 or 4 shops max, small treat after for good behaviour eg cake, ice cream.

A 5 year old is old enough in my experience to understand that sometimes we need to do what we don’t want to do. Mine certainly did.

How much do you actually want to go to Legoland yourself?

I don't think the sulk is the way to go about it. 5 year olds can still be quite selfish and are still learning about giving etc
Now if she really didn't want to go to a second hand store that does not mean she has done something bad. Forcing her would be a wrong move. She needs to gain an understanding through you about the reasons for helping and going. Get her involved. Not sure if i understood but if you are donating things get her to help you bag things up and she can hand it over to the lady at the store and i usually end of with imagine how many people you can make smile through giving all these things? The cafe idea would definitely have bribed my daughter not sure what happened there with yours maybe she reallllly didn't want to come.
I think restricting her from things because you want something to be your way is not the way to go. Restricting things because of bad behaviour is fine. 2 very different things.

Shoes on, coat on, door open, out!

If she won't put her stuff on, then do it for her.

If she throws a wobbler, still do it for her, then scoop her up and put her in the car. Ignoring whining and yelling.

'We're going'

My five year old is stubbornly wilful and currently would do nothing that wasn't playing if she had her way. She will flat out dead eye me and say 'No Mummy, I am NOT coming to Tesco it's boring!' Ahem, yes you are kiddo, move it!

She would rule the house if I let her, and she would likely be a nightmare in five years time!

None of this 'I'm not playing with you' rubbish - at five years old they're too little to understand the message you're trying to convey. Their brains just aren't mature enough. At five, they understand 'Mum is in charge' even if they don't like it. Approaching it as you have all the think is that Mum is being horrible and they don't understand why.

DH and I regularly use war speak when dealing with ours. 'We don't negotiate with terrorists!' and also 'divide and conquer?' when they need separating, particularly in the hour before bedtime!

My husband has always been a bugger for asking the kids question that implies they can actually say no and then telling them to do it because he wasn't really giving them a choice.

I can't count how many times I said to him (privately) ffs, if you are telling not asking then don't bloody start with would you like to go out, do you want to put your shoes on, would you like dinner, do you want to ... then start ordering them to do it anyway if they take your question at face value and believe they have the option to refuse! They're adults now and I still haven't managed to drill that blindingly obvious thing through his bloody head.

It's very important to not make children feel they don't have the right to say no when they are asked if they want to do something.

When we are telling them, we should tell them. Not pretend they have a choice they don't have.

If we ask them and they say no, we have to respect that otherwise what are we teaching them about their right to say no?

In this situation I would have said please put your shoes on, we need to go to the shops. After that, we can do X.

If she said no then that's when you tell her that you weren't asking. That this is somewhere you need to go and to put her shoes on.

If she still won't comply that's when you put consequences in place such as removal of screen time.

But you don't ask someone a question about whether they want to do something if you can't accept their answer may be no and respect that.

It's not U to expect her to do something she doesn't like. Everyone has to do things that they don't like. However, it's unfair to give her a choice and then punish her with an 'adult sulk' for making a choice you don't like. Either you just take her where you wish, with no room for argument, or if you do give her a choice, you accept her decision. It's not fair to put it in terms of being 'disappointed that she was unwilling to put someone else's wishes before her own for a change'- that is treating her as someone much older. Best just to say 'We're going to town!' and not leave room for debate or bargaining.

You are being unreasonable to expect a 5 year old to put an adults feelings before their own. That's why, if there is something an adult needs/wants to do (and it's not age inappropriate) you don't ask a 5 year old, you tell them. If they are reluctant you can acknowledge and discuss their feelings but they still have to do as they are told.

You would also be unreasonable to announce tomorrow that you don't feel like going to Legoland. That would be spite not discipline. And it's too far off from today's events for her to understand the connection.

Talk to your daughter now. Tell her you are really sad that and disappointed didn't get to go to the sale and you hope there will be another one soon. She will probably be amazed to discover that adults have feelings and feel sorry. That's all it needs for now. Then for the next couple of weeks insist she does some slightly less pleasurable things with you using some of the excellent
parenting techniques suggested on here.

It's a great book, I recommend.

It's not fair to put it in terms of being 'disappointed that she was unwilling to put someone else's wishes before her own for a change'

I think you’ve picked up on the bit that’s probably influenced a lot of answers here. This is a really unreasonable expectation of a 5 year old. If it doesn’t come naturally (which is rare) to people then having enough empathy and intellectual willpower to justify putting someone else’s needs first is very much a learned skill. Part of learning that is doing things you don’t necessarily like because they need to be done. As the parent you decide what falls into that category of ‘need’. Shopping isn’t always a need but if the parent has a need to do something pleasant for themselves then that counts.

I haven't read every comment, but the ones I have read don't say you are the worst mother ever. It seems like you are having the same reaction to people here saying something you don't like as when your child said something you didn't like and stropping off.

The advice is quite reasonable. If it's something you are set on doing, don't ask her if she wants to first. If you don't mind, that's when you give the choice. Asking her and then telling her she is selfish for having a different opinion is never going to end well.

Stop allowing her to choose when it isn't appropriate. She is five. And needs to do what you say. Or else you are storing up problems for the future.

"I wasn't looking for a diatribe of abuse of how I was the world's worst mother, and my daughter is fcked.*"
Really and truly, you haven't had a diatribe of abuse and no one has said your daughter is fucked. The vast majority of posters have simply said that 5 year olds don't get to negotiate whether or not they go out and some have even given you sensible advice on how to manage that. If you can follow that advice in future, I'm sure your life will be easier.

YANBU.

And then when she says no? My go to would be 'OK, then we're not doing x that you wanted to do', but I didn't really think it was ideal to resort to that either.

Why is it not ideal? She says no she gets a consequence, personally I wouldn't not take her to an activity as that would only punish you too and result in another boring day stuck in the house but I'd take away screen time or something else she cares about. What you did today was fine, I definitely don't think you're a bad mother!

Op ignore the posters who can’t admit/see they aren’t perfect parents all the time. I’d have also gone for the - we are doing x for me and then we could do y for you in town. But I’ve also made the mistake of asking when I only wanted one answer! I am still figuring things out but if they said no / kick up a fuss for a long time I say we won’t have time to do your things as there won’t be time or i’ll have to go another time and it will mean we miss y etc - I am hoping this counts as a natural consequence….